[Putters] Putter used as a Driver?

[slowplastic]

How will the DX plastic hold up to the trees, stumps, roots, rocks, etc. that a drive will hit that a putt typically shouldn't? How would the flight of the Champion plastic differ from the DX or the Star or the GStar plastic in the Aviar?

Thanks!



LOL...thanks, that makes me feel much better!!! That and the fact that a new disc is $15...while when I played tennis a new racquet was $150



As asked above, will the DX plastic hold up to the wear and tear off the tee?

I was looking at the Champion plastic of the Teebird at 168g...what advantage will going with the GStar give me over going with the Champion?

Again, I appreciate everyone's help!!!

TripleB

DX plastic definitely dings up somewhat fast if it's a softer blend. But on a slower disc like a putter and midrange, with a blunt wing shape, the gouges and dings have much less of an affect and the discs last longer. Drivers with sharper profiles can gouge worse and have flight characteristics change much more quickly.

Aviars are great, and are extremely straight as throwers. They will show you errors while learning, but also reward you with holding any line or going straight without fading. There are so many putters out there, and honestly they fly so similar to each other...whereas drivers have huge variations. Some Aviar variations are for different hand feel, mostly for putting, and some are more overstable like the big bead or P2, to handle windy drives better. Honestly, that is better for someone who already has the confidence to throw putters hard and/or throw putters in wind. Beginners are likely better with a putter that rewards clean throws with straight flights. Plus so many putters are based off of Aviars, by the time you beat up 2 of them "too much" you'll likely have formed some opinions on what to get next time...as in deeper, shallower, more overstable, bead/no bead, etc.

I have thrown a couple of Gstar Aviars recently and I really like them as throwers though. They are firmly straight with a slight finish to them, so more stable/overstable than DX but still very straight. Plus they tend to stay put when they hit the ground because of the softer plastic. If you want a premium Aviar, the GStars are nice.

As for the Teebird...different plastics actually have different flight characteristics. While champ plastic does last the longest, it tends to be the most overstable. Gstar is grippier, but it should never cause you to shank a throw...not a concern that way. Gstar Teebirds tend to hold straighter before a fade, while champs tend to be very firmly straight with a sooner fade; better in wind but less distance/glide. I could likely throw a typical Gstar Teebird 30'+ farther than a champ, maybe more. Especially when beat. As a newer player, the potential overstability of a typical champ Teebird would make it want to dive bomb to the left early in flight, costing you a lot of distance.

 

[slowplastic]

So are you advising to go with the DX or the Champion? Excuse my ignorance, but why doesn't a Aviar DX and an Aviar Champion/Star/XTPro/GStar/etc. fly the same if they are the same mold and weight but just a different plastic?

Thanks in advance for explaining this!!!

Heh, wish it were that simple. Look up "parting line height" or PLH. Different plastic blends cool differently when the discs are made, so the shapes can be slightly different. Because of this, typically DX plastic is the least stable/most glide. Then there's a jump up to Gstar, then often a significant jump to star, and then champ plastics in overstability. To the point where some molds I can't even throw in DX because it will turn into a roller, but in champ plastic I could throw it into a storm and the disc wouldn't care.

Obviously this is a very deep hole to get into when you're starting out. But that's why people generally suggest a disc along with a plastic type. To me a typical champ Teebird is very different to a Gstar in how I would use it...similar flight shape but the distance potential and wind resistance is very different. The Gstar is much more normal player friendly.

 

[august dupree]

How will the DX plastic hold up to the trees, stumps,, rocks, etc. that a drive will hit that a putt typically shouldn't? How would the flight of the Champion plastic differ from the DX or the Star or the GStar plastic in the Aviar?

Thanks!



LOL...thanks, that makes me feel much better!!! That and the fact that a new disc is $15...while when I played tennis a new racquet was $150



As asked above, will the DX plastic hold up to the wear and tear off the tee?

I was looking at the Champion plastic of the Teebird at 168g...what advantage will going with the GStar give me over going with the Champion?

Again, I appreciate everyone's help!!!

TripleB

The best answer I can give you is that the Dx Aviar will hold up to regular throwing and regular play several times per month for at least 6 months before it becomes more understable but not unusable. You would be surprised actualy at how they change over time. As a disc wears in, it gains glide. It is important as a new player that you start to learn the wear cycle of a disc and how it changes the flight over time. There is no better disc to learn about this than with a Dx Aviar. If you get a champ Aviar, you rob yourself of learning this critical aspect of disc physics. Sure, champ Aviars or Star are durable but it takes a looooong time to get them to the worn in glidey flight that you actually want at this stage of your game. Because the Aviar is a blunt disc, it can take a lot of wear and still fly great. Drivers with their thin rims change much faster after getting dinged up.

As for gstar vs champ teebirds, most people will tell you that a champ teebird is going to be quite overstable and take a loooooong time to break in. Gstar breaks in much more quickly but it's also very durable plastic that doesn't really chunk or chip much and will be more throwable for you in a shorter period of time and it will stay that way for a loooooong time. I'll bet you lose it before it becomes too understable for your to throw. Dx Teebirds are great too I would not shy away from one of those at all.

My basic theme here is I think that its vital to learn the wear cycle of a disc. It ends up being one of the most fascinating parts of discs flight and the soul of the game. Those discs that you wear in over time and become your trusty rustys are really where a big part of the magic lies.

With all that being said, if you get a champion Aviar AND a Dx Aviar for throwing and throw them both a lot (and keep them away from concrete and asphalt), then you will learn about all of that in the coming year.

Good luck!

 

[Quinntastic]

The plastic type effects flight a great deal. I had it explained scientifically to me once, from what I understand DX style plastic is more porous and thus has more resistance and traps more air under itself, creating more glide, or "floatiness" to be technical. Slicker plastics, like champion, create less resistance and so have less glide, and they are also more overstable because less resistance is holding them up so to speak. Plebeian knowledge here feel free to correct me anyone.

Also "flippy" would mean understable. The older a disc gets, the more nicks and scratches, creating more drag (reference above) and causing the disc to flip away from its original flight path. The more beat up a disc the more variance in the flight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[plastic cannon]

I used a JK Pro Aviar for years until the Aviar3 was released for driving needs. The Aviar3 doesn't glide as well for me, but it is considerably faster so the distance potential is the same. Just worked a bit better in wooded situations because I can place it more accurately. Plus the low profile fit my small girlish hands better. :|

 

[93EXCivic]

So are you advising to go with the DX or the Champion? Excuse my ignorance, but why doesn't a Aviar DX and an Aviar Champion/Star/XTPro/GStar/etc. fly the same if they are the same mold and weight but just a different plastic?

Thanks in advance for explaining this!!!



Sorry, but what does a "flippy putter" mean and how does the DX getting beat in help/hinder putts or the flight of the disc?

Again, thanks to all!!!

TripleB

Flippy means understable. So if you throw Right hand backhand, the disc will go to the right instead of straight or fading to the left.

Basically as the disc gets used and worn in, it will become understable. DX and other baseline plastics become understable quicker then Premimum plastics like Star or Champion. Plastics do affect the flight of a disc in the same disc. Champion is the most overstable (fades hardest to left if thrown right hand backhand). Basically it goes from most overstable to least (at least for Innova and when the disc is new), Champ>Star>baselines (DX, Pro, etc)>GStar

For example, I throw Gazelles as my fairway driver. I use multiple Gazelles to cover my various fairway driver shots. So I carry a Champ Glow Gazelle for my overstable shots, fresh DX for slightly overstable shots and either a beat in DX or a GStar for understable shots.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[TripleB]

Aviars are great, and are extremely straight as throwers. Beginners are likely better with a putter that rewards clean throws with straight flights.

If you want a premium Aviar, the GStars are nice.

As for the Teebird... Gstar is grippier, but it should never cause you to shank a throw...not a concern that way. Gstar Teebirds tend to hold straighter before a fade, while champs tend to be very firmly straight with a sooner fade; better in wind but less distance/glide. I could likely throw a typical Gstar Teebird 30'+ farther than a champ, maybe more. As a newer player, the potential overstability of a typical champ Teebird would make it want to dive bomb to the left early in flight, costing you a lot of distance.

That's great to hear! Definitely want to get my straight throws down prior to trying anything fancy. I'm thinking if I can get a consistent throw down then I can learn what different disc will do based off that same throw. Good to hear about the GStars. If going with another Aviar I wasn't sure if I should go with another DX or the GStar/Star/XTPro/Champion would offer the best/most consistent for a newbie like me.

Thanks for the advice on the TeeBird...definitely want to go with the plastic that would offer the least likelihood of me shanking the shot...did that enough when I used to play club golf.

Would the Star or DX version of TeeBird be any easier to throw than the GStar or is GStar the best plastic option for a newbie?

I appreciate you taking the time to respond!!!

Because of this, typically DX plastic is the least stable/most glide. Then there's a jump up to Gstar, then often a significant jump to star, and then champ plastics in overstability. To the point where some molds I can't even throw in DX because it will turn into a roller, but in champ plastic I could throw it into a storm and the disc wouldn't care.

The Gstar is much more normal player friendly.

That's great to know about the DX plastic. I also appreciate you explaining how the stability/glide moves up through the various plastics in the Innova series.

So with the Teebird you'd say the GStar version is easier to throw accurately for a beginner than the Star/DX/Champion/etc.?

Thanks for the help!

There is no better disc to learn about this than with a Dx Aviar. If you get a champ Aviar, you rob yourself of learning this critical aspect of disc physics. Sure, champ Aviars or Star are durable but it takes a looooong time to get them to the worn in glidey flight that you actually want at this stage of your game.

As for gstar vs champ teebirds, most people will tell you that a champ teebird is going to be quite overstable and take a loooooong time to break in. Dx Teebirds are great too I would not shy away from one of those at all.

Great to hear that about the DX Aviar. Since I already have one of those I wasn't sure if I should get another DX Aviar for use as a driver or look to a different model or a different plastic in the Aviar just for comparison sake. Good to hear that two of the DX Aviar is a good option as well.

Would you say that a DX, GStar, or Star Teebird would be the best for a newbie looking for an easy and consistent throw?

Thanks for everyone's help and advice....I'm taking it all in (and printing it out)!

TripleB

 

[SD86]

So are you advising to go with the DX or the Champion? Excuse my ignorance, but why doesn't a Aviar DX and an Aviar Champion/Star/XTPro/GStar/etc. fly the same if they are the same mold and weight but just a different plastic?

The plastic does make a difference. Champion is generally more overstable than Star (with some exceptions), which is more overstable than GStar. And we can (and do) use this to our advantage. Throwing a putter hard off a tee will cause a different flight than a half-power touch/finesse approach shot, and I prefer more stable discs when throwing harder.

For throwing off the tee, try the Star and Champion Aviar P&As, see if they work for you. Then go from there.

 

[slowplastic]

DX or Gstar Teebirds would be best for a newer player. How far do you throw your DX Leo, and does it do an S-curve flight?

DX Teebirds actually have the most glide/distance the easiest, but least wind resistance. Gstar Teebird is the "expected" straight to fade Teebird flight, absolute bombers for experienced players and a consistent straight to fade disc for newer or intermediate level players. The star Teebirds I like fly like the Gstars, so might as well get a Gstar...and champ will not be what you want yet typically.

If you want a disc that will be a consistent straight to fade but has glide, go Gstar. If you want just a step up from the Leo and want to see the beat in characteristics over time, then DX is good. A DX Teebird was the only DX disc in my bag until I lost it...went too far and into some water I think. It's the longest speed 7 disc I've thrown.

 

[august dupree]

I agree with slowplastic.

I'll add that most of the star teebirds you will find off the shelf are too overstable for you at this point.

 

[august dupree]

There's a lot of good knowledge being dropped in this thread. For a really nice discussion of how a top pro cycles Dx Aviars and Dx Rocs, check out Philo Brathwaite's in the bag video in this thread here:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96471

 

[SD86]

I agree with slowplastic.

I'll add that most of the star teebirds you will find off the shelf are too overstable for you at this point.

I would also suggest a Star or Champion TL, which is not quite as overstable as a Teebird. A seasoned-in DX Teebird flies like a premium plastic TL (and the premium plastic will last longer).

 

[dysmike]

There is a lot of value in learning how mold break in. Well worth the $7 a DX teebird costs IMO.

 

[tu-f-o]

Dude I have a DX Colt. It is pretty awesome for driving.

Don't think it has a bead so it doesn't rip my fingers.

Clean release. Flies straight

 

[Meillo]

I'll add that most of the star teebirds you will find off the shelf are too overstable for you at this point.

That depends on what you want it for. In the other thread the idea was building a Garubag, with a DX Leopard in the straight driver slot and a Champ Teebird in the overstable driver slot. I'd say that this would work well for a beginner (the same way as an advanced player would use e.g. a Star Teebird in the straight slot and a Firebird in the OS slot). IMO it's all about the concept of the bag. If he want's the Teebird for his main driver then sure Champ/Star is too overstable, but if he uses the Leopard for his main driver and the Teebird for OS and utility shots, then Champ/Star is what he needs there.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

You know, I'm not sure why different plastics fly differently.

I'm suggesting DX. Personally I prefer it for putters, or whatever baseline your preferred putter comes in) for grip, and cheapness. That way I can get a big old stack of my putter and practice for less money.

Flippy- slang term for understable. All discs get more understable as they get used. The shape deforms as little pieces get worn off, and the rim gets bent down. It happens to all discs but will happen faster to DX. You may read that people say one good tree hit and DX is too flippy, but don't listen to that. I haven't experienced that with any disc, but I'm not throwing 1,000 mph into ironwood trees like some internet folks.

Flippy discs hit lines that stable discs can't. Dogleg right, dead straight tunnel that can't finish left, easier rollers.

 

[wims]

The G* Teebird is amazing IMO. It starts out straighter than the Star and Champion versions and it has a lot more glide than those. Great carry. The fade is later into the flight and more gentle as well. The G* plastic has alright durability, perhaps a little less durable than Star, but will still hold its stability for a long time. The G* Teebird is my favorite Teebird, its a great workhorse fairway driver in my opinion. It's the only Teebird variant I'm still carrying in my bag, and its one of my most important discs.

I'd stay away from dx plastic for discs faster than a midrange; the sharp edge of the wing gets banged up really quickly and the disc will significantly change its flight pattern in no time, especially if you're new and playing wooded courses. G* will hold up way way better

 

[EROPPER]

My 1st putter was an Innova Dart, the R pro version got flippy on me very quickly for driving, but it was a great, straight glidey putter, the Lat 64 Pure now occupies that spot in my bag, very straight, will show form flaws, if it's always diving right (RHBH) your form is off-

i also threw a Gstar Teebird3 for a long time, great disc for beginners, champs are waaaay too OS for beginners, IMHO, straighter easier to throw alternative in Innova = TL, very straight, easy to throw

I would recommend a Stag, Saint, or Escape in Gold Line or base level Plastic, as possible, easier to throw alternatives in the Trilogy family, mmmmmm Swedish made, glidey, goodness, once you go Swedish you never go back

as far as mids go, the original Truth, Claymore, Warrant, Fuse, and Sling are beginner friendly, in premium plastic will basically last forever

good luck to you, now go forth and throw em good!

 

[PocketSand]

DX is perfect for new players. DX Teebirds are amazing, and putters are just "meant" to be in that base plastic. The TeeBird was also designed for DX originally. You'll see a big difference between DX and Champion and Star. It seems like you'd rather go with premium plastic though for some reason. If you must, I would echo the GStar options. Honestly though, a noob is not going to be beating in DX very quickly at all unless you're throwing rollers on asphalt or something.

 

[wims]

....Honestly though, a noob is not going to be beating in DX very quickly at all unless you're throwing rollers on asphalt or something.

I beat my starter dx Leopard into a useless disc in about two months when I started out. I played mostly open courses. There wasn't many trees there, but I would somehow always hit them with my noob non-accuracy. A noob is more likely to hit trees than somebody experienced that has great accuracy