Reid's Journey to Backhand Mastery

[deyo7]

Interesting, it seems like how Dunipace is describing it is how I think about it. It just seems counter to seeing Eagle and other players putting the thumb more towards the center. I can't imagine how I would be able to grip the disc hard and allow it to pivot with the thumb that far inside. It must be moving back towards the rim at release or something.

Also my favorite video of Dunipace is him casually hitting two standstill 50' putts in a row. Never knew he had that level of skill.

Give yourself a fan grip then try Eagle's thumb in middle of disc. You'll feel massive leverage but I think the tricky party is keeping it nose down. Bigger hands probably help too.

 

[UhhNegative]

Grip is such a tough topic. When it´s warm outside I would reply that pretty much any grip will do, now that it´s cold all grips suck . I personally know a lot of professional disc golfers who can crush the disc over 550+ and they have almost nothing in common with their grips. SW22 is probably going to chime in soon and suggest robbies two finger grip which never really clicked on me.

Mainly we grip things with our fingers clamping against our thumb muscle and that´s how I am trying to grip the disc atleast in the winter. Pretty much every single "finger-grip" kills my fingers during the cold seasons.
I think the the right question to ask would be what we are trying to achive with the grip, what is the right task? I don´t have an answer to that. That would be an intresting topic to discuss.

Do you mean like fingers clamping against the big thumb muscle? Like the pad? If so, my whole life is a lie. I'm mainly gripping with more of the thumbprint and index finger under the rim. The disc is still contacting my palm, but I'm not really applying pressure with it. I'm going to have to try this out. I know the "rip point" will still be my thumbprint and index finger.

 

[RandyC]

Do you mean like fingers clamping against the big thumb muscle? Like the pad? If so, my whole life is a lie. I'm mainly gripping with more of the thumbprint and index finger under the rim. The disc is still contacting my palm, but I'm not really applying pressure with it. I'm going to have to try this out. I know the "rip point" will still be my thumbprint and index finger.

I have pretty small hands, I think my rip point is more my 1st index joint on the rim and the tip of my thumb slightly lifted up, so it´s the bony part at the joint. Also when the thumb is slightly lifted you should see your thumb muscle engaged. The grip itself feels very relaxed and I belive it´s just because most of it comes from the thumb muscle. Like if I were to use the disc as a hand fan it is definently pinky,ring,middle and meat of the thumb that is controlling the movement.

Hope that makes some sense.

 

[UhhNegative]

I have pretty small hands, I think my rip point is more my 1st index joint on the rim and the tip of my thumb slightly lifted up, so it´s the bony part at the joint. Also when the thumb is slightly lifted you should see your thumb muscle engaged. The grip itself feels very relaxed and I belive it´s just because most of it comes from the thumb muscle. Like if I were to use the disc as a hand fan it is definently pinky,ring,middle and meat of the thumb that is controlling the movement.

Hope that makes some sense.

Yeah that makes sense and my rip point is the same. Not the tip of the thumb but more around the first (outer) thumb joint. So you are saying that you are gripping with the fingers/thumb pad but then having the index finger/thumb as the rip point? I think I'm doing basically everything with just the rip point and not really applying much pressure at the palm/fingers interface.

 

[sidewinder22]

If you use Bratten's 2 finger grip and lift the tip of your thumb up then the base of the thumb should be holding the pressure on the top, and you should be able to take the index finger off the rim as well and basically hold the disc between the middle finger and base of the thumb. Need to find the right disc angle in your hand for this control.

 

[UhhNegative]

Real talk: Had my first mental breakdown in a round in quite some time. Made some stupid mistakes (like playing for the wrong pin location a few times...) and took an epic quad bogey on my least favorite hole/pin location in existence. By the 9th hole, I wasn't engaged with playing anymore and just played to get it over with. Ended up last in tags (not terribly unusual) and inside I was fuming. Once I hit that "point of no return" in a round, there's just no coming back from it. But I think I handled it a lot better than I have in the past and got over it more quickly than before which is a good sign. Before, something like that would ruin my entire day.

It's just incredibly frustrating to practice putting and then it all doesn't matter when my mental state gets so perturbed during the round. I tend to self-preserve by not really practicing as much as I should so that when I inevitably fail then I can't "fully" label myself as a failure. Or I stop trying during the round. But then I just end up held in place because I'm too afraid to put my full faith effort into getting better and still fail. My monkey brain deems that to be the worst-case scenario. In my early 20s I could go all-out for things because I hadn't really met utter failure yet. Then I went through some things and really was in a bad place mentally. I'm a lot better now, but my internal demons do still come out from time-to-time. Part of my pursuit of disc golf is to develop a stronger mental game in life and be able to try harder even in the face of failure.

 

[sidewinder22]

Do you always practice with a stack of discs?

Always good stuff in here:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134975

 

[RandyC]

Hmm, I think you have one of those putting styles that are made in a sense that it probably did not come naturally ? I would suggest switching hands and see what sort of putting style your body comes up, my guess is, it will be some sort of spinish putt. Thou I think you switched hands once already ?

I practiced putting with my left hand and it made me lose all the "feldberg" moves from my actual putt. I just went with what came naturally and now I don´t have to think about how to putt. Sure I still miss putts but they don´t feel as stressful as before, now I don´t seek something in my form to blame. Be like MJ, missed putt, "oh well" and nail the second one.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I think that you could see some improvement by developing some inner strength around your own self worth. It may be working with some less fortunate or being a big brother to little kid. It may be as simple as just calling a friend once a week and asking how they're doing. It sounds like the negativity of your internal dialogue is overwhelming your ability to recognize that you are a good person.

Missing a putt or losing a game does not have ONE LICK of correlation about your own self worth. If you never make another putt inside the circle, for the rest of your life, you can still be an absolutely awesome person. That negative inner voice needs a reckoning with the good person that you are, and then a missed putt can be just a part of your awesome time on the course.

 

[Casey 1988]

Real talk: Had my first mental breakdown in a round in quite some time. Made some stupid mistakes (like playing for the wrong pin location a few times...) and took an epic quad bogey on my least favorite hole/pin location in existence. By the 9th hole, I wasn't engaged with playing anymore and just played to get it over with. Ended up last in tags (not terribly unusual) and inside I was fuming. Once I hit that "point of no return" in a round, there's just no coming back from it. But I think I handled it a lot better than I have in the past and got over it more quickly than before which is a good sign. Before, something like that would ruin my entire day.

It's just incredibly frustrating to practice putting and then it all doesn't matter when my mental state gets so perturbed during the round. I tend to self-preserve by not really practicing as much as I should so that when I inevitably fail then I can't "fully" label myself as a failure. Or I stop trying during the round. But then I just end up held in place because I'm too afraid to put my full faith effort into getting better and still fail. My monkey brain deems that to be the worst-case scenario. In my early 20s I could go all-out for things because I hadn't really met utter failure yet. Then I went through some things and really was in a bad place mentally. I'm a lot better now, but my internal demons do still come out from time-to-time. Part of my pursuit of disc golf is to develop a stronger mental game in life and be able to try harder even in the face of failure.

I played the wrong pin on a course I helped with at age 17 in 2006, I was carrying the basket for the most part but did help with a few holes. The reason I played to the wrong holes was that when the small/short tee pads got put in during 2013 the city people put the taper end in the back part of the tee pad not the other way even though it was told to them Skinny end of the molds furthest from the basket so skinny part is at the end to throw from.

 

[UhhNegative]

I think that you could see some improvement by developing some inner strength around your own self worth. It may be working with some less fortunate or being a big brother to little kid. It may be as simple as just calling a friend once a week and asking how they're doing. It sounds like the negativity of your internal dialogue is overwhelming your ability to recognize that you are a good person.

Missing a putt or losing a game does not have ONE LICK of correlation about your own self worth. If you never make another putt inside the circle, for the rest of your life, you can still be an absolutely awesome person. That negative inner voice needs a reckoning with the good person that you are, and then a missed putt can be just a part of your awesome time on the course.

Oh definitely. Everything you say I agree with. I recently went through a pretty dark period, dealt with depression for a few years but everything has been really good the past 6 months. I just still have a day here and then when I'm extra susceptible to falling back into some of those thought patterns.

 

[UhhNegative]

Some standstill/slow x-step shots from after work today. Anything looking any better? Trying to get my front hip cleared back and get more "squatty" and it looks like I'm doing so on some of the throws.

 

[UhhNegative]

 

[deyo7]

To my novice eyes... a couple of the first shots in first post looked pretty good. I think something that would help you is windmill drill. I notice in side view videos it looks like you are throwing on more of a horizontal plane and I think it leads to spinning around in front just a little. Whereas if you do the windmill drill you'll get the feel of really digging into the ground/pushing off/leveraging that front foot on more of a vertical swing. The whole gravity thing will make it easier to leverage against ground. You know what I mean?

 

[UhhNegative]

To my novice eyes... a couple of the first shots in first post looked pretty good. I think something that would help you is windmill drill. I notice in side view videos it looks like you are throwing on more of a horizontal plane and I think it leads to spinning around in front just a little. Whereas if you do the windmill drill you'll get the feel of really digging into the ground/pushing off/leveraging that front foot on more of a vertical swing. The whole gravity thing will make it easier to leverage against ground. You know what I mean?

Yeah I get what you are saying. And funny you say that, my best shots right handed have been after doing the windmill drill for a while. I was getting mids to 300' that day. I definitely did feel some spin-out type feelings and I think that was me getting eager to clear the front hip and engaging the arm too early too. Keep in mind I'm throwing these at very little power, otherwise I'm hitting the neighbor's house. So far I've only hit a couple of cars....

Another thing I realized, I really need to squat more in the throw. I am doing so a little more in these vids, but I need even more. I think that will help the rear leg not stiffen up and straighten out and keep me better balanced as well.

 

[deyo7]

Yeah I get what you are saying. And funny you say that, my best shots right handed have been after doing the windmill drill for a while. I was getting mids to 300' that day. I definitely did feel some spin-out type feelings and I think that was me getting eager to clear the front hip and engaging the arm too early too. Keep in mind I'm throwing these at very little power, otherwise I'm hitting the neighbor's house. So far I've only hit a couple of cars....

Another thing I realized, I really need to squat more in the throw. I am doing so a little more in these vids, but I need even more. I think that will help the rear leg not stiffen up and straighten out and keep me better balanced as well.

Yeah, even just feeling that windmill with a good pump preswing seems to help me to remember to drive into/leverage against the ground. And I think more of a vertical swing you won't have to worry [i.e. think about] about squatting because your focus will be on pumping the arm by the use of your legs.

Adding pumping of the swing/windmill acceleration gif:

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[sidewinder22]

Too staggered closed and spinning out both feet. Front view you are starting w/ feet inline and then stepping/striding over to right teepad side. The stride should be straight or inward from your rear foot angle. Your x-step is crossing over in the way of your front foot stride.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3506501&postcount=431

Side view shows your front heel spinning out counter clockwise closer to target in your backswing = toasted from the get go. Front heel should get pulled back away inward/clockwise from the target from the momentum of the backswing pulling it off the ground like heaving a sledgehammer away and taking you with it. You are starting with your front foot turned back too far(and staggered closed), should start with it slightly pointed at target, so the backswing turns everything back into rear foot going into plant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m

You also start the backswing from impossible static position and leaning back instead of shifting back. Need to swing forward before you start the backswing.
*copy/paste* Backswing always starts after swinging forward first with rear heel off the ground/shifted forward - pre-swing/pump/press. To initiate backswing rear heel plants in ground while disc still going forward and heel stays on ground going up to the top of the backswing/transition. It's basically crushing the can mirrored. Your rear heel is airborne way before the top of the backswing, so you have no balance/support through your rear ankle. You are falling forward over your toes like Mike shows...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAXNglCDcz4#t=2m30s

 

[UhhNegative]

Too staggered closed and spinning out both feet. Front view you are starting w/ feet inline and then stepping/striding over to right teepad side. The stride should be straight or inward from your rear foot angle. Your x-step is crossing over in the way of your front foot stride.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3506501&postcount=431

I don't understand this one. I see the feet spinning out but I don't get the striding part. I can feel better now how to get balanced on the rear foot instead of just gliding past it and that lets me do the "crush the can like simon" motion with my plant foot where I can stride it straight then stagger at the plant. Can you show me with the following images? I see how my front foot is way too closed especially in side view. I guess it seems like I'm going from closed to planting more open and Simon is going from a more open stance to planting more closed? Is that right?

Side view shows your front heel spinning out counter clockwise closer to target in your backswing = toasted from the get go. Front heel should get pulled back away inward/clockwise from the target from the momentum of the backswing pulling it off the ground like heaving a sledgehammer away and taking you with it. You are starting with your front foot turned back too far(and staggered closed), should start with it slightly pointed at target, so the backswing turns everything back into rear foot going into plant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m

Ok I definitely see this one and I can feel how to fix that.

You also start the backswing from impossible static position and leaning back instead of shifting back. Need to swing forward before you start the backswing.
*copy/paste* Backswing always starts after swinging forward first with rear heel off the ground/shifted forward - pre-swing/pump/press. To initiate backswing rear heel plants in ground while disc still going forward and heel stays on ground going up to the top of the backswing/transition. It's basically crushing the can mirrored. Your rear heel is airborne way before the top of the backswing, so you have no balance/support through your rear ankle. You are falling forward over your toes like Mike shows...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAXNglCDcz4#t=2m30s

I thought you didn't really need to be on your rear heel at any point as long as you can balance on it? That's what I've been trying to avoid because I tend to drive off the rear heel and I think I'm driving off instep slightly better here.

 

[sidewinder22]

I like Simon, but most people would be better off if they never saw his form and stop trying to be like him. He has the balance of a ninja and can do things that the rest of us mortals simply can't.

You will notice that Simon's front foot is always underneath or inside his head. Your front foot is outside your head.

I have terrible balance/ankle stability, so it helps to let my rear heel down. The only thing you don't want to do is push off the heel/extending the knee - I mean you can, but it's not proper. The instep should drive the heel regardless of whether or not the heel hits the ground. Working in "standstill" I highly recommend the rear heel planting into the ground in the backswing. Everything should be mirrored back and forth. In x-step/hop you will be moving faster, so it's not as necessary for that balance/stability on the rear foot just like running vs walking.

 

[UhhNegative]

Outside in what direction in this context? Left side of teepad?