SQUATCH Legend!

[Innova63]

Not new, but a bit different when compared to most backpacks.

Got my Mahal before my first Grip bag...

All bags are collecting dust as I have gone the way of the cart...

 

[Emoney]

Btw...you can just about buy a Zuca Transit AND a Grip BX3 for the price of an Octothorpe. Which kind of tells you how crazy the price is for one.

I went through the whole bag progression. Sold the prior bag to help pay for the next.

Grocery bag-->single shoulder Fade crunchbox-->Phenix custom(square bag style w/rhino liner on the bottom)with quad shocks-->Grip bag first release-->one of the first to get the Ridgeroller/Zuca release...

Then had to buy a bag again for when I couldn't use the cart. Got a DD Trooper....then sold when I found a sick deal for the Voodoo Spinal tap 3 when they liquidated.

It was almost inevitable that a Squatch-like bag would come along with the DG explosion.

I won't buy a Squatch but if the bag is everything they say it is, I'm glad ppl have another option. We will see if Squatch can be profitable and get quality bags to ppl in a timely manner.



#DopeSquatch

 

[zontar]

seems weird that people buy incredible Chinese copies of stuff all the time and never worry about it. just decide for yourself where the value is. and who you want to give your money to.

 

[jakebake91]

I agree. Nobody put out a statement saying after 20 years in the disc golf business we have decided to put our efforts into making a great disc for the disc golf community… And then they bring out a Teebird clone

They just make a Teebird clone and put it in there stable Fairway Driver slot. No taking credit for the design

So your issue is with the seemingly dishonest marketing? Not the product? Clones are okay as long as you don't make a big deal about them? That makes less sense.

I know I sound obtuse. Not trying to be. Trying to figure out where the disc golf community draws the line.

Darn near every basket looks identical. Most discs at this point are clones of others. But a allegedly cloned bag draws the ire of the community.

 

[HarkeyPuck]

So your issue is with the seemingly dishonest marketing? Not the product? Clones are okay as long as you don't make a big deal about them? That makes less sense.

I know I sound obtuse. Not trying to be. Trying to figure out where the disc golf community draws the line.

Darn near every basket looks identical. Most discs at this point are clones of others. But a allegedly cloned bag draws the ire of the community.

I mean kinda. It's a bit different between discs and bags, but yeah. They damn near cloned a bag and claimed it as their own. Rubs me the wrong way.

I bought a Pound bag after seeing/wearing one in person. And I knew it was a lot of money, but I felt good about it as it was quality and a Disc Golf loving company. All of them. I won't have to buy another bag ever. (As long as they're still in business).I play a bunch. To me it's worth having a quality bag for all those rounds/road trips. . That's my reasoning/opinion.

I get that a custom built bag for $500 is A LOT. But custom quality stuff is expensive.

(No kids so I can buy myself toys also)

 

[jdm0514]

That's different from a Teebird that is made in California and costs $15-20 getting copied as the Rival...which is made in California and costs $15-20.

Ha rival. I see what you did there.

 

[wolfhaley]

This is probably the best argued debate I've ever seen on these boards. Both sides make some great points (sometimes), but the more I look at pics of these 2, the more it looks like a direct copy. Nobody with eyes can deny that. It's a fact.

But I throw a Latitude Teeb...er, I mean Explorer. So there's that :|

 

[R-Ogre]

I don't think people buy the Pound mainly for the design, at least I didn't. They buy it mainly for the custom color schemes, the warranty, and the made in USA stamp.

 

[TurnedOver]

This is probably the best argued debate I've ever seen on these boards. Both sides make some great points (sometimes), but the more I look at pics of these 2, the more it looks like a direct copy. Nobody with eyes can deny that. It's a fact. :|

It does look like a copy. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they violated intellectual property law. It doesn't make it unethical either.

Many consumer products are copied without breaking the law.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I feel the same way about the "sling" bag.. Looks like a nutsac copy at a fraction of the price, the pockets look smarter too haha. Kinda wish I'd seen that before I bought my new double but my original nutsac has held up great.

Someone comes up with an idea and then someone steals it and manufactures it overseas it takes money away from the country of the origin, it's theft of intellectual property.

 

[txmxer]

I've already stated that Squatch looks like a knockoff or copy to me.

Using terms like theft implies a legal ramification. Does anyone think that Pound could sue Squatch and win.

There's a big gap between unethical and illegal.

PS: I'm not a lawyer, so I'm asking for opinions.

 

[SSquirrel]

I have a Voodoo Spinal tap 3 bag....one could argue that it's a ripoff of Grip...they went out of business. Not sure why.

Which was a shame, they made good stuff. I still own a Juju and Karma and if I didn't have back issues these days, would be using the Karma right now instead of having bought a Core Pro recently.

 

[SSquirrel]

User CP > edit options > scroll down > change 10 to 40 posts per page > ........ > profit.

Just meant I was posting before reading the rest of the thread, to avoid any "well look on page 6" kinda responses.

So if you started a business by copying someone else and passing it off as your own creation you'd sleep soundly and look at yourself in the mirror with pride?
No part of you would feel guilt and shame?

Bought a cellphone lately? Television? Clothing? Acting like making something that resembles another product is a new and special thing is kind of ludicrous.

Honestly, it's mostly not this egregious.

Inova Firefly. They even say Nate needed some more P2s, so we made this.

I mean kinda. It's a bit different between discs and bags, but yeah. They damn near cloned a bag and claimed it as their own. Rubs me the wrong way.

Really curious about the mental gymnastics that make it different when you directly clone a disc than when you make a new bag that shares design features, especially when (as has been pointed out in this thread repeatedly) the basics points of 90% of the backpack bag market are identical.

The side pockets on the Squatch are several inches taller than the Octohaul. The attach angle and "shoulder" as Doth called it is different, the Octo is narrower at the top of the bag than the Squatch. The Squatch has the side discs ride up when put on when the Octo doesn't, and apparently the individual discs are felt on your back, unlike the Octo. They both have a soft bottom, the tuckaway pocket for the top flap on the Squatch is super deep.

It's pretty easy to keep going over differences just from Doth's video, but that isn't going to change views, bc it's been proven from studies that facts produced don't change strongly held beliefs. So this could just go to r/circlejerk at some point, bc it's not likely to end.

 

[HyooMac]

So this could just go to r/circlejerk at some point, bc it's not likely to end.

At some point like...50 posts ago?

 

[Discette]

So this could just go to r/circlejerk at some point, bc it's not likely to end.

At some point like...130 posts ago?

FTFY!

 

[F.Luke]

...I went through the whole bag progression. Sold the prior bag to help pay for the next.

Grocery bag-->single shoulder Fade crunchbox-->Phenix custom(square bag style w/rhino liner on the bottom)with quad shocks-->Grip bag first release-->one of the first to get the Ridgeroller/Zuca release...

How much $ did you get for the grocery bag? I've got quite a few I could unload.

 

[chevis]

I think ODRB may be a viral marketing guru. By playing up the controversy, he has surely attracted more clicks and eyeballs than this thread would otherwise have gotten. Lots more product awareness.

it would take some big balls to call your own product a rip-off the way ordb has

 

[Stardoggy]

But if the whole bag works the same, and is constructed in the same way, and it shares identical stylistic elements, even if it's 1" wider or shorter, it's still a copy. Even if they sew a phone pocket into the side. Or add a key clip. Still a copy. In my mind and under US law.

As somebody that designs consumer goods for a living and works with IP lawyers to stay on the right side of the law, I can tell you that you're not quite right on this one. Basically, if you can change form, fit, or function you're good to go. Even the smallest changes in any are damn near impossible to win a case against. You'd be shocked at how small the changes need to be.

Debating the ethics of it is a personal matter, but calling something a "copy" or "ripoff" doesn't make it illegal. See: Teebird v. Rival

And you're absolutely correct that those lawsuits are stupid expensive.

 

[robdeforge]

Inova Firefly. They even say Nate needed some more P2s, so we made this.

I feel like this comparison is not quite right. Innova made the original P2s. so you're saying that they're copying themselves?

That's different from a Teebird that is made in California and costs $15-20 getting copied as the Rival...which is made in California and costs $15-20.

I recently compared a rival to an 11x teebird and man, those profiles are SIMILAR!

 

[SSquirrel]

I feel like this comparison is not quite right. Innova made the original P2s. so you're saying that they're copying themselves?

They own the mold and Discmania owns the name. There are questions about whether Innova can legally use the P2 in ad copy w/o permission from Discmania. Lots of talk has happened so far, but it's all armchair lawyers, and not anyone w/an actual horse in the race.

There have been claims that the Squatch situation is IP theft, so that's my parallel.