Swinging upward nose down.

[rhatton1]

I agree with you on the myth of the disc pivot.

I disagree with the 90 shoulder. The biggest moment arm you can create would be the arm inline with shoulders. GG, Wiggins, Avery, Sandstrom, Oakley, and Clemons get about as close as possible. The biggest difference between Simon and Wiggins and myself below is that Simon's foot has pivoted, so that extra rotation is not transferring energy to the arm since the foot is spinning.

The 90 degree thing strikes me as another one of those good advice getting a bit lost in description moments.

It was first talked about as not dropping below 90 degrees at any point in the swing, which is generally good advice, it then somehow turned into locking it to 90 degrees throughout which is demonstrably false. It doesn't even seem like a "feel" thing with this one as I can't imagine any of the guys feel like they maintain that angle rigidly throughout, you definitely feel your shoulder extend away as the disc comes through (or should I say rotates now ) The more closed that front shoulder is the more pronounced the angle

 

[rhatton1]

There are some weird directions this one goes, but I wonder about the actual forearm rotation into the hit.

Thing is, I don't see that rolling in the pros, but they do flip from vertical to on plane.

I can't quite bring myself to watch this vid from Bradley again as I remember some absolute rubbish in it from the first time round, but as for pronation through the hit.

Check out the Ezra clip on youtube using the < and >

You can see his arm pronates after the disc releases (wrist roll under)

But hang on we've talked about wrist roll under before and how Pro's use it to get clean flights and extra oomph? How can something that happens after the disc has left have any effect on flight?

Go to 2:06 and focus on Ezra's thumb, you really need to go frame by frame to see this.

It's reasonably deep on the plate (not a DFP grip but still on there to some extent) Watch it through the last two frames before release and especially that last frame as it is still in contact.

That thumb pushes forward. That thumb push forward is actually produced by beginning to pronate the wrist. The wrist hasn't visibly pronated at all at this stage but the thumb pushing forward and sliding closer to the edge of the rim is an indicator it's happening. When I'm talking about wrist roll under through the hit it is this I'm talking about. It feels like you are pushing your thumb and as a result pronating your wrist but in reality only your thumb has visibly (almost imperceptibly) started the movement whilst the disc is in your hand. The visible pronation only happens afterwards, but the feel is through.

You can actually get a thumb push forward by supinating the wrist as well (throwing annies) Again you will not see it in the wrist until after the disc has left the hand but by pushing your thumb forward you are starting this motion that releases in full pronation/supination in the follow through.

 

[semisensei]

You need to create lag tension and a bounce/sling/whip effect so the arm/disc accelerates faster than the body. Door Frame Drills.

We are not a wheel or driveshaft where the only way to increase distance is by rotating faster.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQeHCkx...isb4WTXnwDfrvR7Ae0cP_8L0WkkOMwYtckrVkbC-CeIGk

Simon is much greater than 90 even though he says to lock it at 90.

This!!! This is the secret sauce.
I added the bounce to the top of my backswing today and legit added another 50' to my drive right away. Some were longer but I did not officially measure- suffice to say, my longest drives to date.
I realized that the door frame drill is not just a static drill to feel balance/tension in the reach back. The feeling I had today was like I was trying to yank my house down from the door frame: not gradually building tension, but bouncing against it all at once. The power felt like it was coming from the hips/core, but in more of an explosion than a gradual acceleration. This led to MUCH faster armspeed, and helped with my timing: the bounce and the weight shift/brace happening at once. This helped getting the disc much deeper into the power pocket, shoulder past 90 degrees.
I'm super pumped right now. Can't wait to get in a field where I can measure some throws.

But that's it. That's the esoteric teaching we must meditate upon: we are not a wheel or drive shaft, we are a whip.

 

[SuperWookie]

You need to create lag tension and a bounce/sling/whip effect so the arm/disc accelerates faster than the body. Door Frame Drills.

We are not a wheel or driveshaft where the only way to increase distance is by rotating faster.

So when I have tried the Door frame drill in the past, it feels just like that... only a drill to feel something I can't feel or do with a disc in my hand. So how does that drill translate to work in reality? Like I can do the drill, and feel and do all the things your talking about, but then if you put the disc in my hand, I don't feel ANY of that pull, that weight, or that springing out of the pull like the door frame drill is trying to teach us.

I feel like every single drill or tip for disc golf is just so hard to actually do or feel correctly in reality, because you don't have a club, a bat, a racket, or stick in your hand/hands that weighs something. Like if someone had the same type drill for golf or tennis or baseball, it is SO easy to FEEL not only what the drill is trying to get you to feel, but then it ACTUALLY translates 100% to actually hitting the ball. Because you have something with actual weight in your hand/s. But the disc weighs almost nothing. So I'm not sure HOW you're supposed to FEEL the weight of a make believe door frame PULLING and stretching your arm and lats while you stride forward with your lower body.

Do you know how I can feel that? Like what else can I do to connect the drill to the actuality of throwing the disc? Because I know what it should feel like after watching yourself and pros throw. But then when I try to do it, I can't feel it. Because there is no door there, and no weight in my hand. So frustrating. But thanks again for trying to explain and suggesting the best drills to hopefully get the correct feeling and movements.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think it's easier to feel with a full pump forward and pendulum backswing. Make your arm pull on you away from target.

 

[semisensei]

The drills are meant to give you the feel itself, and the trick is to figure out how to feel it in the swing. If youre not feeling it in the swing, something is off. I would recommend posting a video in the form critique section and others can help you see what you can't. It's EXTREMELY helpful.

As far as trying to feel the door frame at the top of the backswing, try throwing a really heavy disc or hammer. Try pulling a stop sign over. Try grabbing a nail head with pliers and yanking it straight out of a stud. Then go throw the discs again and look for that feeling.

The thing that clicked for me had to do with timing. The heaviest part of the door frame feel comes right at the plant, and explodes from there.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[flatflip]

Curious how you think this applies to someone like Matt Orum. His form is everything that Ezra tells you not to do -- with the disc almost above his head at full reachback -- and he still smashes, albeit with a bit of air bounce.

I ask b/c my form has been similar to Orum's until recently, when I've had to overhaul due to tendonitis issues. But I still consciously smash downwards at the hit to get snap, even if I'm coming through a lower swing plane.

 

[Lastchancer88]

Curious how you think this applies to someone like Matt Orum. His form is everything that Ezra tells you not to do -- with the disc almost above his head at full reachback -- and he still smashes, albeit with a bit of air bounce.

I ask b/c my form has been similar to Orum's until recently, when I've had to overhaul due to tendonitis issues. But I still consciously smash downwards at the hit to get snap, even if I'm coming through a lower swing plane.

Watch this video closely. If you notice, he pulls through high, but his disc pivots out of his hand in a slightly upward but nose down rotation. All 4 of them have the dingle arm arc in their swing at different heights in relation to their body. Matty O would get a pass from Ezra because he's not making a mistake here. If I tried to throw like that I would absolutely air bounce my shots and Ezra would then give me the advice he had for the video. Not a hard fast rule to pull from pocket height to chest height, just a physics rule that you gotta get the nose down and swing upward for least resistance.

 

[sidewinder22]

Curious how you think this applies to someone like Matt Orum. His form is everything that Ezra tells you not to do -- with the disc almost above his head at full reachback -- and he still smashes, albeit with a bit of air bounce.

I ask b/c my form has been similar to Orum's until recently, when I've had to overhaul due to tendonitis issues. But I still consciously smash downwards at the hit to get snap, even if I'm coming through a lower swing plane.

He still knows how to swing upward nose down.

 

[flatflip]

Watch this video closely. If you notice, he pulls through high, but his disc pivots out of his hand in a slightly upward but nose down rotation. All 4 of them have the dingle arm arc in their swing at different heights in relation to their body. Matty O would get a pass from Ezra because he's not making a mistake here. If I tried to throw like that I would absolutely air bounce my shots and Ezra would then give me the advice he had for the video. Not a hard fast rule to pull from pocket height to chest height, just a physics rule that you gotta get the nose down and swing upward for least resistance.

Yeah it's just some wizardry that he can go from here:


To the pic in SW's post.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah it's just some wizardry that he can go from here:


To the pic in SW's post.

Ricky and Avery basically the same as Matty O.

 

[semisensei]

This image is great for seeing how the disc is flat in relation to the ground, but nose down in relation to its trajectory.