Talent Out Pacing The Money?

[curmudgeonDwindle]

thirsty and miserable - always wanting more

human beings are wells of desires which never run dry...rationalizing these desires doesn't really legitimize the 'wanting'. people merely have desires, just like they have opinions - no entitlement required (or called for).

 

[JTacoma03]

Well it was hard to hear over the motor of the vehicle in that YouTube post. Also Aver Jenkins talks so annoying with all his ums it was hard to hear. They had discs to sell was all I could make over the Motor of the Vehicle they were using. I think they had bought the disc from Innova and Discmania to sell themselves but were selling them slightly over price, had to buy them off the pro shop website or something. It was really hard to hear, they may have been using the discs for an event or something. I see a few years ago Simon and Avery were doing the Training events as part of the Discmainia Scout team so they may have had some of the the discs for the event at the time as well as some of the equipment. They should have not been doing the Webcast while driving that was the scary part and annoying with the bouncy film.

Can you link to the video? If it's the one I'm thinking of I might have been in the RV hiding behind the seat, lol.

 

[mrtho]

There isnt gonna be big money in the sport for even the top pros until i gets mainstream and on TV you need commercials like:

Hi I'm Big Sexy and play disc golf for a living. One of the biggest things that helps my game is a good night sleep. That is why I stay at Holiday Inn.


I'm Big Jerm and play disc golf for a living. I need a comfortable car with good fuel milage to get around. Thats why I drive a Ford.

Then pop up with (insert name) the Official Sponsor of the PDGA.

That gets it mainstream and mainstream= money

Right now most of the money in the sport comes from people who play the sport and that will never make anyone rich.

 

[DiscFifty]

Right now most of the money in the sport comes from people who play the sport and that will never make anyone rich

Op is not about getting rich, it's about just making enough to even tour, and if you just break even, that's a tough reality to swallow long term. Like others have said, the very top guys will bank alot more than just pdga earnings. Searching on players on the PDGA site, where you can see how much money they made every year, by event, etc, etc, it's (fill in the blank) to see some of these well known players only make 2-300 for a 2-3 day event.

 

[Chaz58]

Op is not about getting rich, it's about just making enough to even tour, and if you just break even, that's a tough reality to swallow long term. Like others have said, the very top guys will bank alot more than just pdga earnings. Searching on players on the PDGA site, where you can see how much money they made every year, by event, etc, etc, it's (fill in the blank) to see some of these well known players only make 2-300 for a 2-3 day event.

Truth. Even back when McBeth was winning all those tournaments his best year for earnings was around 70K. Nothing to bank retirement on, for sure. A player of Conrad's caliber has only made a little 40+K in his playing career. Probably very few pros could survive living on just tournament earnings alone.

 

[Chaz58]

There isnt gonna be big money in the sport for even the top pros until i gets mainstream and on TV you need commercials like:

Hi I'm Big Sexy and play disc golf for a living. One of the biggest things that helps my game is a good night sleep. That is why I stay at Holiday Inn.


I'm Big Jerm and play disc golf for a living. I need a comfortable car with good fuel milage to get around. Thats why I drive a Ford.

Then pop up with (insert name) the Official Sponsor of the PDGA.

That gets it mainstream and mainstream= money

Right now most of the money in the sport comes from people who play the sport and that will never make anyone rich.

Yeah, seeing a really big sports sponsor such as Bud or Toyota, etc. who have the really big bucks to sponsor events is definitely a far fantasy I think. They'd have to somehow think they could realize a decent profit from the venture and that having their brands associated with disc golf would be a positive thing for the brand's image. Just my 2 cents worth there my folks!

 

[JTacoma03]

There isnt gonna be big money in the sport for even the top pros until i gets mainstream and on TV you need commercials like:

Hi I'm Big Sexy and play disc golf for a living. One of the biggest things that helps my game is a good night sleep. That is why I stay at Holiday Inn.


I'm Big Jerm and play disc golf for a living. I need a comfortable car with good fuel milage to get around. Thats why I drive a Ford.

Then pop up with (insert name) the Official Sponsor of the PDGA.

That gets it mainstream and mainstream= money

Right now most of the money in the sport comes from people who play the sport and that will never make anyone rich.

95% disagree with this, except for the last sentence.


"Mainstream TV" mentality holds us back. It's the past, it's dying. If we're putting effort into getting on cable TV we're wasting our money and time tbh. It's a format that doesn't accept us, doesn't really fit us, and basically opens us to ridicule from people who don't understand what they're looking at.

They don't understand what they're looking at because we have to bend our media methods to fit their formats, and like I said our sport doesn't play well like that.

OTT and social are our future. I've said it before and I'll say it again, eSports is the model we need to be looking at. Obviously there's some similarities to traditional cable TV, but the format and look are far more flexible which allows the fanbase to galvanize and promote from within.

Look at Jomez. I told people in my 2017 year-end SpinTV presentation back in December that they'd eclipse us in 6 months (we had 63k subs, they had 48k at the time), and they just hit 70k. Why? Because it's their format, their distribution, our sport. It doesn't matter what some CBS Sports big wig says or thinks, it's something that's made-from-scratch and wholly ours. We take techniques from other sports that mesh well, and add our own spin to it.

We're actually ahead of the curve in terms of presenting content to a dedicated fanbase. Cable companies are flipping over into internet based media conglomerates (well most already have completed that transition tbh) to mimic what we're doing. We don't need Super Bowl viewership numbers to be relevant, we just need an engaged fanbase. That's what gets advertisers these days, not viewcounts.

 

[frasnow]

95% disagree with this, except for the last sentence.


"Mainstream TV" mentality holds us back. It's the past, it's dying. If we're putting effort into getting on cable TV we're wasting our money and time tbh. It's a format that doesn't accept us, doesn't really fit us, and basically opens us to ridicule from people who don't understand what they're looking at.

They don't understand what they're looking at because we have to bend our media methods to fit their formats, and like I said our sport doesn't play well like that.

OTT and social are our future. I've said it before and I'll say it again, eSports is the model we need to be looking at. Obviously there's some similarities to traditional cable TV, but the format and look are far more flexible which allows the fanbase to galvanize and promote from within.

Look at Jomez. I told people in my 2017 year-end SpinTV presentation back in December that they'd eclipse us in 6 months (we had 63k subs, they had 48k at the time), and they just hit 70k. Why? Because it's their format, their distribution, our sport. It doesn't matter what some CBS Sports big wig says or thinks, it's something that's made-from-scratch and wholly ours. We take techniques from other sports that mesh well, and add our own spin to it.

We're actually ahead of the curve in terms of presenting content to a dedicated fanbase. Cable companies are flipping over into internet based media conglomerates (well most already have completed that transition tbh) to mimic what we're doing. We don't need Super Bowl viewership numbers to be relevant, we just need an engaged fanbase. That's what gets advertisers these days, not viewcounts.

Wow! This really well put. All along I've been worried one day big media companies would take over and start over controlling disc golf broadcasting. I can't even pay MLS to watch my favorite team because most of the games would be blacked out and require paying for multiple channels I don't watch.

I hadn't seen this vision of the future. Thanks
Jamie.

 

[DiscFifty]

I still think "disc golf as a sport" might have a bit of an identity crisis which could keep the big sponsors from entering our market. Seems like there is a real struggle moving forward if the sport wants to be identified similarly to traditional ball golf or perhaps take on a more youthful, brash, energetic, etc, image associated more with the "x-games" demographic.

yah...I know this is going to get blasted...(I've said it before...lol..) but I've always wondered how a disc golf tournament setup inside a stadium, played at night, with lights, lots of colorful objects to throw through, around, etc, lighted ob lines, etc, a real time shot tracker like they have for ball golf or hockey! Would be perceived by "joe casual sports watcher"? Not saying we go this route for all events, just a few events like this every year. Would this be an entertaining sporting event to watch? Would this attract a larger, youthful base that might be more appealing to larger sponsors/advertisers? Personally, I think it would be a blast to see the top elite players in an event like this.

 

[DiscJunkie]

The PDGA, from its very beginning, has been a pro-based and pro founded and pro-biased organization.
Founded by pros for pros.

This has shaped the PDGA's vision and strategy.
For pros by pros.

BUT, until we build a sizable fan base of people willing to spend money on DG (branding, spectating, viewing and supporting) "For pros by pros" is all that we will have.
(Some of us don't want our little niche sport invaded by the uninformed masses, others of us welcome the mainstreaming of the sport. Understood.)
How do we build the fan base? Schools, youth introduction, work, work, work on establishing youth participation. Until we get youth (and their loving, caring, spendthrift parents) involved in a deep way, this sport will remain a niche sport and will be dominated by the pro-level play.

SO, while a few players have built their brand and are doing quite well, the point remains the same, the skills progression is growing faster than the money progression. More touring pros means less (donated) money from the locals and the payouts get thinner and thinner.

As someone has already stated, it doesn't affect me as an amateur player, but looks like it may affect the traveling pros...

 

[Nubes]

This is definitely a sport where you have to love what you're doing because you're not doing it for the paycheck! I really enjoyed racing bicycles on and off for half my life and in this regard both sports have a lot in common. Most pro cyclist make just make enough to live comfortably. The top 1%, the guys teams are built around get the million dollar contracts. Both athletes often fail drug tests too. Granted its EPO and blood transfusions for cyclists which might not have the same benefits as smoking weed? I'm kidding I know not all disc golfers are stoners and the doping culture in cycling is getting cleaner. But anyways, both take years of practice and hours upon hours of paying your dues to make just enough money to get by and not have to sit in an office and be miserable. Doesn't seem like a bad life to me...

 

[JC17393]

yah...I know this is going to get blasted...(I've said it before...lol..) but I've always wondered how a disc golf tournament setup inside a stadium, played at night, with lights, lots of colorful objects to throw through, around, etc, lighted ob lines, etc, a real time shot tracker like they have for ball golf or hockey! Would be perceived by "joe casual sports watcher"? Not saying we go this route for all events, just a few events like this every year. Would this be an entertaining sporting event to watch? Would this attract a larger, youthful base that might be more appealing to larger sponsors/advertisers? Personally, I think it would be a blast to see the top elite players in an event like this.

Not trying to "blast" you, but stadiums simply aren't big enough for disc golf. At least not if we're talking about showcasing the best in our game. Consider the biggest stadiums we have available in the States...the playing field is 400 feet by 250 feet roughly. Big enough to accommodate a standard soccer or football field with some room around the perimeter for benches and media and whatnot. So we're talking a maximum of maybe 450-460 feet for a hole if you go corner to corner which is just a long par 3 for most elite MPO players. And having that might restrict the length of any other holes unless things start crossing each other. In which case, the number of players competing would have to be small.

I think the Dynamic events at football stadiums (including this weekend at Arrowhead in KC) are great for promoting the sport. But the courses they set up run through the stands and the concourses as well as the field and really aren't set up to be ultra challenging for the casual player, let alone an elite one. Not a great setup for spectating or filming (at least in the sense that the filming wouldn't be any different than what we do on regular courses).

 

[DG_player]

Guys like Nate Sexton, Nate Doss, Devan Owens, Josh Anthon made $400.00 or less from BSF. Guys like Will Shusterick, Eric Oakley, Jeremy Koling made nada!

Just for a little perspective, there's something like a dozen major winners who will earn zero for the US Open, with a handful of them being multiple major winners.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Looks like Paul has stumbled across an observable phenomena called the Pareto distribution. It's a ruthless and indifferent law of nature that affects pretty much every single domain of society.

 

[JC17393]

Just for a little perspective, there's something like a dozen major winners who will earn zero for the US Open, with a handful of them being multiple major winners.

For more perspective, most of those guys missing the cut at the Open have 6 figure earnings for the year, and probably 8 figure earnings for their career (tournament winnings only). They'll probably be okay.

 

[DiscJunkie]

For more perspective, most of those guys missing the cut at the Open have 6 figure earnings for the year, and probably 8 figure earnings for their career (tournament winnings only). They'll probably be okay.

In other words, they won't have to sleep on someone's couch and they'll have plenty of money to drive home or to the next venue.

It would be interesting to know how many didn't make it to the next DGPT (Utah?) event because they have no winnings. Gotta be a tough life...

 

[JC17393]

It would be interesting to know how many didn't make it to the next DGPT (Utah?) event because they have no winnings. Gotta be a tough life...

I don't think there is anyone on tour that is that hard-up in terms of getting from tour stop to tour stop. If they haven't planned out each leg of the tour before they leave, specifically having enough gas money to get from place to place and eventually home, they're probably not out there in the first place. I think it's more likely that if they are in a position where missing cash at an event or two could jeopardize their ability to stay on tour, it would be a matter of lopping off events further down the line rather than dropping from the very next event on the schedule. In other words, if missing the cash at BSF shortens their time on the road, it will cost them playing at Idlewild or Ledgestone rather than Utah next week.

 

[lyleoross]

I absolutely agree, I can't believe that baseball players invest so much and so many of them never make it out of the minor leagues to make a real living in the majors. I can't believe that the average career is just over five years and that numerous positions average much shorter careers. I mean, how can those guys make a living at this? It has to be awful for the sport!

What is happening is normal and part of every sport that has ever existed. The guys that don't make the cut have decisions to make. Some go into coaching and sales, some become used car salespersons. The notion that something should be done to prop up or support, would be wrong, IMO.

The notion that a 1015 player didn't get a payout will soon be the norm. We have been playing this game about what a pro is (I want a pro to be a 920 rated player so I can qualify, seems to be the mantra) We aren't anywhere close to a real pro pool, even in the traveling pros. At some point, we will see a 1015 player as an accomplished Am, and those 1000 rated players will play to the local club where the rookies oh and ah at them.

In the late 1800s, St. Louis changed baseball forever. They never won because they didn't have the money the East Coast teams had to recruit top players. So they changed how they trained. They practiced fundamentals in ways that had never been done and the sport took a huge leap forward in skill and competition. Going back twenty years, the knowledge that Paul and Ricky had about their games wasn't there. Even Ken didn't have that knowledge, and he was great. We are just starting to explore what it means to be a top-level pro, and I'm not sure we're there yet?

We all make life choices, I could quit my day job and become a full time touring pro. I'd do it for one tourney and then be looking for a new job. This is life.

 

[DiscFifty]

Not trying to "blast" you, but stadiums simply aren't big enough for disc golf. At least not if we're talking about showcasing the best in our game. Consider the biggest stadiums we have available in the States...the playing field is 400 feet by 250 feet roughly. Big enough to accommodate a standard soccer or football field with some room around the perimeter for benches and media and whatnot. So we're talking a maximum of maybe 450-460 feet for a hole if you go corner to corner which is just a long par 3 for most elite MPO players. And having that might restrict the length of any other holes unless things start crossing each other. In which case, the number of players competing would have to be small.

Yah, I was thinking the majority of the holes would be short, technical to showcase the accuracy of the players, perhaps getting an ace etc, etc. Maybe 1 big long hole going over the entire course, etc. Just something flashy, brash, to make more visually entertaining to watch.

 

[JTacoma03]

The PDGA, from its very beginning, has been a pro-based and pro founded and pro-biased organization.
Founded by pros for pros.

This has shaped the PDGA's vision and strategy.
For pros by pros.

BUT, until we build a sizable fan base of people willing to spend money on DG (branding, spectating, viewing and supporting) "For pros by pros" is all that we will have.
(Some of us don't want our little niche sport invaded by the uninformed masses, others of us welcome the mainstreaming of the sport. Understood.)
How do we build the fan base? Schools, youth introduction, work, work, work on establishing youth participation. Until we get youth (and their loving, caring, spendthrift parents) involved in a deep way, this sport will remain a niche sport and will be dominated by the pro-level play.

SO, while a few players have built their brand and are doing quite well, the point remains the same, the skills progression is growing faster than the money progression. More touring pros means less (donated) money from the locals and the payouts get thinner and thinner.

As someone has already stated, it doesn't affect me as an amateur player, but looks like it may affect the traveling pros...

Yes but the point is that tournament purses are kind of irrelevant. The original purpose of hosting big tournaments was to get the name of your course out there and to sell rounds of golf (and merch) to the average Joe's who came to watch.

Social media and internet shopping mean you don't need to have a tournament to generate sales based on big names, you only need the competitor and the title.

The check that Simon Lizotte is about to cash in a month for that new Doombird 2 release? Tournaments are much less responsible for that than they would be 30 years ago. I'd argue it's at an all time low, since Simon was injured last year and still moved merchandise, and dropping the last 2 world title bids as the heavy favorite hasn't hurt McBeth's bottom line at all.

The phone has become the gathering point, socially and economically. The tournament is almost just a middleman...albeit a necessary one.