That YouTube Destroyer video

[lyleoross]

I only carry one disc faster than a PD or RR, which is an old beat up 155g blizzard Boss. Faster discs are less shapable on throwing lines and much less forgiving of angle errors. Their swing weight is also much heavier which is why I like lighter weights.

I used to carry 150g Teebirds for max distance, those bomb when your technique is sound, but found it was limiting because of the ceiling height needed and wind pushing it around. 150g Firebirds and Banger GTs also go surprisingly far and fun to throw.

this is also exactly what i found personally . i throw drives almost exclusively forehand so rim width is probably less of a factor than it is for backhand throwers. the key for me was finding the correct weight so i got the desired flight pattern and distance for MY throw.

i just turned 60 and a distance bomb for me is right at 320'. i can't throw a new 170+ Star Boss 200' before it meathooks on me. i can however throw a new domey 155 Star Boss 270'. same thing with my ESP Nukes but 159-161 is my sweet spot. seasoning only adds to the glide and distance. i now carry 3 Bosses, 2 Nukes and a Shryke that flies like a longer Roadrunner for me for most if not all drives over 200' on any given course. the funny thing is they fly just like the heavier weights do in the hands of a player with 400'+ power.

with the ease of extra distance i can compete with 80% of the players i run into so i wouldn't discourage any person who can control what they are throwing now from trying a high speed driver. you just have to match the disc to your arm.

I'm going to agree to a large extent. When I start getting up over the speed nine discs, it gets increasingly hard to get good results. But if you watch what the top pros do with the high-speed discs, it's throw them on big open holes where they annie flex or go high to get distance. They never use them for anything technical, that I see. And of course, I'm not talking forehand.

There is a distance difference, for me. I can get my 320 to 350 (I'm also almost 60) with Valks and the Beast and Orc just don't get me that much more. But a Destroyer, the right one, can get me up to 400 feet when everything is clicking. It can be a costly 400 feet, but still. The cost is so much that over the last year, I've pretty much given over on them. Most of my drives are wtih lesser discs.

 

[slowplastic]

I dunno...yeah I can throw a RR probably as far as most 12+ speed discs but it certainly needs more height and there's no way I'm throwing it with any amount of headwind or left to right wind. And I don't throw as hard as SW so I can't laser a PD as far as I'd like, I can throw a Teebird as far or farther but it won't resist wind as well. So going up in speed to something like a milder Destroyer lets me get more than fairway distances with more wind resistance, as well as laserbeams under 10' high that carry way farther than a fairway would.

Of course with beefy high speed stuff yeah I'm way better off throwing a PD/Thunderbird since I'd throw it the same distance, it'd hold a hyzer still, and it won't skip/fade as much on me. Though if there's 15+MPH wind then that OS Destroyer makes sense again since it cuts through better and will still fade at the end, whereas a Thunderbird/PD becomes a very good straight disc.

Basically just be honest with yourself...does this disc give you a shot that you otherwise don't have? Then throw it. Can you throw a fairway almost as far in another situation and have way more control? Then throw that instead in that case.

I fully agree with high speed stuff not being as shapeable on different lines. I could get away with a few fairway drivers and throw them on all sorts of lines BH and FH, yet I bag many high speed drivers and throw them less often...because I feel like the subtleties in their stabilities really impacts what happens during the whole flight vs. throwing a fairway and having it hold my angles the whole flight. I may go a few rounds without throwing certain high speed discs, but when I need that stability combination it's necessary.

 

[Twmccoy]

I finally watched the youtube Destroyer video. Fairly informative. I've honestly never given much thought to rim configuration the way the guy who made the vid did. I always assumed Destroyer stability based more on dome height.

It really is shocking how much stability variance star Destroyers have. I've never seen a really flippy one, but I've definitely seen massive overstable ones. We're talking like 100' or more difference on max distance drives between them.

I think the Destroyers are coming out inconsistently for 2 different reasons:

Shoddy QC at Innova. They're cranking out Destroyers at a rapid rate and the overall quality of them is inconsistent. Using slightly different batches of plastic can have different results too.

More than 1 Destroyer mold. It seems there's evidence that Innova is molding Destroyers in multiple molds. Obviously the video touched on that and it probably comes as a surprise to no one. Still, you have to wonder at the ridiculous amount of rim variance.

 

[lyleoross]

I finally watched the youtube Destroyer video. Fairly informative. I've honestly never given much thought to rim configuration the way the guy who made the vid did. I always assumed Destroyer stability based more on dome height.

It really is shocking how much stability variance star Destroyers have. I've never seen a really flippy one, but I've definitely seen massive overstable ones. We're talking like 100' or more difference on max distance drives between them.

I think the Destroyers are coming out inconsistently for 2 different reasons:

Shoddy QC at Innova. They're cranking out Destroyers at a rapid rate and the overall quality of them is inconsistent. Using slightly different batches of plastic can have different results too.

More than 1 Destroyer mold. It seems there's evidence that Innova is molding Destroyers in multiple molds. Obviously the video touched on that and it probably comes as a surprise to no one. Still, you have to wonder at the ridiculous amount of rim variance.

Quality control in the cooling process does impact final shape, the difference I saw in the wraith was huge. It also seems to be blizzard and Lite dependent. If you're inserting air into hot plastic and it expands or shrinks as the process goes from hot to cold, I can see huge variation in rim configuration happening. Even with straight up plastic I can see this happening. I suspect the molds are pretty exact, the computer driven lathes that cut molds are very x 100 accurate.

 

[Twmccoy]

Quality control in the cooling process does impact final shape, the difference I saw in the wraith was huge. It also seems to be blizzard and Lite dependent. If you're inserting air into hot plastic and it expands or shrinks as the process goes from hot to cold, I can see huge variation in rim configuration happening. Even with straight up plastic I can see this happening. I suspect the molds are pretty exact, the computer driven lathes that cut molds are very x 100 accurate.

You could be right about the molds being made to exacting standards, but it seems Innova is making Destroyers from 2 distinctly different molds. The rim variances can't all be explained by plastic cooling or something else. The entire shape of the rim on some of the newer star Destroyers is different than on old ones. As the guy illustrates in the video, those discs fly vastly different from each other too.

It almost looks like Innova has gone slightly less stable with the Wysocki Destroyers. The only time you might not see that is if they had old unstamped McBeth era ones that they put the Wysocki stamp on.

 

[ODRB]

PLH, people.

 

[VLaForce2002]

PLH, people.

It seems that the wing curve is just as much if not more influential based on the video.

 

[ODRB]

It seems that the wing curve is just as much if not more influential based on the video.

Well, the video never bothers to discuss PLH, actually. So the video actually doesn't speak to your point at all.

That said, I've thrown Destroyers for years. When I lose one, the first thing I do is go into my stacks to find a couple with a PLH between the two where there is now a hole in my bag. One of the few always works to fill that gap.

I agree that wing shape plays into it. It would have been interesting to see how wing shape correlated with PLH. But that video ignores PLH entirely, and I don't care enough to go through mine. Because I already know how to pick Destroyer on look and feel.

 

[thatdirtykid]

I would like to see him add PLH to his data. I imagine that wing shape and PLH in destroyers go hand in hand though.

 

[SD86]

Quality control in the cooling process does impact final shape, the difference I saw in the wraith was huge. It also seems to be blizzard and Lite dependent. If you're inserting air into hot plastic and it expands or shrinks as the process goes from hot to cold, I can see huge variation in rim configuration happening. Even with straight up plastic I can see this happening. I suspect the molds are pretty exact, the computer driven lathes that cut molds are very x 100 accurate.

Agree in that the cooling is very much a factor, air bubbles notwithstanding. They make so many that there is bound to be batches that cool differently than others, depending upon the temperature of the room.

P.S. And it's the PLH that the cooling rate will affect, so yes, the PLH is the issue.

 

[doth_savek]

Hey all, I was just browsing a bit and found this thread. I didn't notice it earlier or else I would have chimed in. The video you are talking about was made by me, and I'm really happy to see all the conversations going on about destroyers.
I hear you all loud and clear about the parting line height. To be honest I think its a pain to measure parting line height and it requires you to carry a disc into stores to try and find a match. PLH changes as bottom wing shape and dome changes. Bottom wing is the easiest thing to notice and has a much larger effect compared to dome when considering stability.
I have stepped up my game and now have a digital height gauge. I can now measure exact dome height and could use the same tool for PLH data.
I have moved on from these destroyers and am now testing a large stack of Forces and Kongs. Perhaps when I'm done with the Forces and Kongs I will go back and fill out more data on the destroyers.

Also I'm proud to say that the Disc Baron has stepped up and is really helping me out to get more product to test. If you like the idea of me continuing to test more discs from more manufactures then please go show Disc Baron some love https://www.discbaron.com/
Jacob even set up a discount code for you all to use; Enter "dothsavek10" at check out for 10% off until 4/30. Feel free to share that code and thanks again for all the nice comments. I'm really glad this video is helping some of you find discs that fly farther.

 

[elmexdela]

Hey all, I was just browsing a bit and found this thread. I didn't notice it earlier or else I would have chimed in. The video you are talking about was made by me, and I'm really happy to see all the conversations going on about destroyers.
I hear you all loud and clear about the parting line height. To be honest I think its a pain to measure parting line height and it requires you to carry a disc into stores to try and find a match. PLH changes as bottom wing shape and dome changes. Bottom wing is the easiest thing to notice and has a much larger effect compared to dome when considering stability.
I have stepped up my game and now have a digital height gauge. I can now measure exact dome height and could use the same tool for PLH data.
I have moved on from these destroyers and am now testing a large stack of Forces and Kongs. Perhaps when I'm done with the Forces and Kongs I will go back and fill out more data on the destroyers.

Also I'm proud to say that the Disc Baron has stepped up and is really helping me out to get more product to test. If you like the idea of me continuing to test more discs from more manufactures then please go show Disc Baron some love https://www.discbaron.com/
Jacob even set up a discount code for you all to use; Enter "dothsavek10" at check out for 10% off until 4/30. Feel free to share that code and thanks again for all the nice comments. I'm really glad this video is helping some of you find discs that fly farther.

ive never had this be any more of a pain than saying to the store clerk im bringing in this disc to measure plh and they just say ok

what have your painful experiences been like

 

[doth_savek]

elmexdela, not sure why you are making a snarky comment?

Just in case you where actually honestly intrigued;
You said it yourself. Just carrying the disc into a store is a pain. I mean if you loose that one you like then you don't even have the option to carry it into a store. Or maybe you get a long lunch break and decide to swing by the disc shop and bam they have a new batch of destroyers in. Too bad your favorite destroyer is at home, now its a pain. If you had just felt the bottom wing of your favorite then you would know its shape and never have to worry about carrying your favorite destroyer around to find a match.
You do you. If you like PLH then stick with it. I'm just sharing what I think is a better way.
Cheers!

 

[Plastic Thunder]

Elmexdela is the king of snarky, I would expect no less.... I think it's the cold that makes him do it. Tried to get him to come down here but he insist on freezing in the great white north. He softens a bit by June or so.

Plus he's older than dirt, grumpy old man I say!

elmexdela, not sure why you are making a snarky comment?

Just in case you where actually honestly intrigued;
You said it yourself. Just carrying the disc into a store is a pain. I mean if you loose that one you like then you don't even have the option to carry it into a store. Or maybe you get a long lunch break and decide to swing by the disc shop and bam they have a new batch of destroyers in. Too bad your favorite destroyer is at home, now its a pain. If you had just felt the bottom wing of your favorite then you would know its shape and never have to worry about carrying your favorite destroyer around to find a match.
You do you. If you like PLH then stick with it. I'm just sharing what I think is a better way.
Cheers!

 

[doth_savek]

After making that video I sent a couple e-mails out to Innova and requested a comment and any clarity they may be willing to offer about the Destroyer. Jessi Dunipace has been so kind as to send a couple e-mails back and forth. I specifically asked if Jessi would mind if I share the content of that discussion on-line and Jessi gave me permission.
I've edited the content just very slightly to organize the information clearly.


Hi Doth,

Thanks for your kind words and thoughtful video; you raise a lot of great questions here.

The slight variances between runs is a normal part of the production process that can actually be an asset.

For clarity's sake I'd like to note that, technically, all Destroyers are not made with the same singular mold, but they are made with identical mold geometry. Essentially, we have duplicate molds. The only difference in the Destroyer's case is that one has the "Made in the USA" tooling, whereas one has our Rancho Cucamonga address tooling.

There isn't one singular intended Destroyer--while Dave prefers his own Destroyers to have a mild, uniform dome and a rounded shoulder, the truth is (as you noted in your video) there are different Destroyers for different players.

It sounds like your video is helping people figure out exactly what they're looking for in a Destroyer so they can shop with confidence, and we certainly commend that.

We're constantly innovating in production and design, and listening to customer feedback is a huge part of that. Thank you for participating in the process.

Best,

Jessi Dunipace

 

[Nova P]

It's a feature, not a bug!

 

[BeRReGoN]

With the high variance, I'm sure the Destroyer can also be a putter and eventually Innova will only produce one Mold, Destroyer for everything! /s

 

[XC_Eddy]

After making that video I sent a couple e-mails out to Innova and requested a comment and any clarity they may be willing to offer about the Destroyer. Jessi Dunipace has been so kind as to send a couple e-mails back and forth. I specifically asked if Jessi would mind if I share the content of that discussion on-line and Jessi gave me permission.
I've edited the content just very slightly to organize the information clearly.


Hi Doth,

Thanks for your kind words and thoughtful video; you raise a lot of great questions here.

The slight variances between runs is a normal part of the production process that can actually be an asset.

For clarity's sake I'd like to note that, technically, all Destroyers are not made with the same singular mold, but they are made with identical mold geometry. Essentially, we have duplicate molds. The only difference in the Destroyer's case is that one has the "Made in the USA" tooling, whereas one has our Rancho Cucamonga address tooling.

There isn't one singular intended Destroyer--while Dave prefers his own Destroyers to have a mild, uniform dome and a rounded shoulder, the truth is (as you noted in your video) there are different Destroyers for different players.

It sounds like your video is helping people figure out exactly what they're looking for in a Destroyer so they can shop with confidence, and we certainly commend that.

We're constantly innovating in production and design, and listening to customer feedback is a huge part of that. Thank you for participating in the process.

Best,

Jessi Dunipace

They were so salty about this over on Reddit when you shared there.

I tend to agree that it's an asset as long as you know what you're looking for. Most of the players that know enough to care know enough to find the individual disc they prefer.

I bag 4 Wraiths and 6 Teebirds. I'd rather have slight variations within the same mold to fit my cycle than fill those same 10 slots with 10 different molds.

 

[doth_savek]

They were so salty about this over on Reddit when you shared there.

I tend to agree that it's an asset as long as you know what you're looking for. Most of the players that know enough to care know enough to find the individual disc they prefer.

I bag 4 Wraiths and 6 Teebirds. I'd rather have slight variations within the same mold to fit my cycle than fill those same 10 slots with 10 different molds.

Yes, very salty. I'm not completely surprised. That is partly why I specifically asked Jessi If i could post what he said on-line. There are just so many people that are "angry experts" as soon as you sit them behind a keyboard. I think she everyone should vote with there wallet and share comments on line if they have something valid to offer, but leave the insults at home.

I started typing responses to many of the ridiculous comments posted on reddit and had to just delete them. Probably better to not feed the trolls.

 

[Always Hyzer Lines]

Thank you doth savek. I have not watched your video but I will. I love the differences in the Destroyer. One disc covers all three of my hi-speed needs.