The next step.

[neilz4]

Consistently getting my River(s) out ~300'+. I'm not a big fan of wide rims, but want to step it up. I have a champ valk but it was my first disc and took many tree hits. It's still plenty stable, but is there another direction other than the Valk that I could/should go? I am not a fan of Innova, but love Lat and Discraft. Any suggestions? Stick to the Rivers?

 

[sidewinder22]

Banger GT out to 300'+.

 

[pspunch]

Consistently getting my River(s) out ~300'+. I'm not a big fan of wide rims, but want to step it up. I have a champ valk but it was my first disc and took many tree hits. It's still plenty stable, but is there another direction other than the Valk that I could/should go? I am not a fan of Innova, but love Lat and Discraft. Any suggestions? Stick to the Rivers?

GL striker maybe. that's still fairly narrow rimmed.

 

[New013]

my advice is to keep doing what you're doing. it's great you reached a goal but don't think because you can throw a fairway 300' that you need to move on to wide rim drivers. now get your mids out to 300' and then your putters.

when you can get your river out to 350' consistently then you can think about something faster. you're probably not getting good snap still and it's one of those things that when you do it you feel it and you know it. until then keep up the field work.

 

[Widdershins]

If you want to compete then move to wide rimmed drivers. Eventually you will have to so why put it off? Yeah, they feel weird in the hand. Yeah, they are harder to control. So what? They go farther, way farther, and the only way to learn them is to throw them.

Why take a little step when you can take a big step?

 

[inourdr]

OP... read these last two posts then look at their post count. That should help you decide which direction go.

Don't worry about high speed drivers yet. Master the mids and fairways. Develope good form.

 

[Widdershins]

OP... read these last two posts then look at their post count. That should help you decide which direction go.

Don't worry about high speed drivers yet. Master the mids and fairways. Develope good form.

Really? If the progression theory is correct then the best players should have only thrown putters until they mastered them and then moved on to Mids, etc. Good theory but name one good player who did this?

The best players pick up the game and are competing as Pros within a year, throwing the most high tech drivers on the market with superb power and control. None of them are afraid of drivers.

If you want to learn good form then throw a wide rimmed driver. They are the most exacting of discs and hardest to control. They demand good form and punish errors.

You don't teach kids to sprint by having them crawl for years.

 

[inourdr]

Dude, I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you. Just not worth my time or effort. Read the boards though and you realize that your wrong.

 

[Triflusal]

Really? If the progression theory is correct then the best players should have only thrown putters until they mastered them and then moved on to Mids, etc. Good theory but name one good player who did this?

The best players pick up the game and are competing as Pros within a year, throwing the most high tech drivers on the market with superb power and control. None of them are afraid of drivers.

If you want to learn good form then throw a wide rimmed driver. They are the most exacting of discs and hardest to control. They demand good form and punish errors.

You don't teach kids to sprint by having them crawl for years.

okay hey whats up guyz triflusal here let me break this post down for you guyz.

Really? If the progression theory is correct then the best players should have only thrown putters until they mastered them and then moved on to Mids, etc. Good theory but name one good player who did this?

are you familiar with weight training at all? a good analogy would be linear progression if you are. if not than its not that useful.

But all of the older players only started out with aviars and rocs. And i cant find one case of a player that says wide rims are best for form.

The best players pick up the game and are competing as Pros within a year, throwing the most high tech drivers on the market with superb power and control. None of them are afraid of drivers.

this is only evidence that pros are really good at this game. Also you have no way of proving that they didnt start out with putters and midranges.

If you want to learn good form then throw a wide rimmed driver. They are the most exacting of discs and hardest to control. They demand good form and punish errors.

You don't teach kids to sprint by having them crawl for years.

Wide rimmed discs are pretty hard to control. They do demand good form and they do punish errors. But they do not teach these things. They mask good form. they mask the true reason for the errors.

A neutral putter and a neutral midrange tell the most about someones form.

you dont teach your kids how to sprint without teaching them how to walk and run.

thanks guyz itz been real and triflusal is out

 

[Triflusal]

okay wait guyz I got a PS

the above post is based on my personal experience and the advice of other more experienced people/posters. if you think you can get perfect form from throwing you ape that's up to you. just remember that you have no evidence other than your personal experience. your word vs mine I guess

okay cya guyz triflusal!!

 

[Widdershins]

Dude, I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you. Just not worth my time or effort. Read the boards though and you realize that your wrong.

I have read the analysis and it makes no sense to me.

None of the best players in the world have used this approach but you say it is correct. Just imagine how good they would be if they had only listened to you!

 

[CreemCheese]

You don't teach kids to sprint by having them crawl for years.

No, but you also don't give your kid a motorcycle because you took the training wheels off their bike.

 

[Connor Jones]

No, but you also don't give your kid a motorcycle because you took the training wheels off their bike.

oops.

 

[Triflusal]

Newer players too often try to start with the discs that the 'big boys' use. The novice does not realize that these discs are designed for players who can throw in excess of 450 feet, and therefore are massively overstable. The novice ends up throwing a huge hyzer, not very far, and never ends up learning how to throw straight. Instead, choose a disc that is only slightly stable and learn to control that disc.

Try throwing less stable discs to start off with. Great discs to start off with are the Comet, Meteor, Stratus or Avenger SS. Try going to an open field and work on the basics of the X-step. Ask a local pro to critique your form and be open for advice.

If you're trying to get better distance, throw some stable to understable plastic and concentrate on accuracy first. Also, if you get the chance, speak with Jon Drummond about your form because I have seen him add length to countless people's drives.

When you are beginning, you should generally know how to throw straight. To learn to throw straight, you can use a set of putters, around five to ten (I use Magnets because they fly straight). Find a target, set up 100 feet away. Throw a few sets, then move back, repeat until you are about 200 feet away. If you are having problems, adjust the angle you release your disc at (up and down and / or side to side. This is also my favorite warm up before a tournament because it gradually loosens you up and sets your muscle memory for throwing straight.

One other thing I see new players doing is throwing discs that are WAY too overstable for their experience and arm speed. When they do actually figure out how to throw that disc, their finesse is so limited that it has major impacts on the touch shots, low ceiling shots, and up shots. Start out with something that is easy to throw and work your way to the overstable stuff. Be patient!

most of these pros say don't start out with something too overstable. now you may be thinking, "but triflusal wouldn't an archon or a vulcan be a good understable disc for a new player?". Yes i can answer this do not worry. A wide rimmed undertstable disc will act speed stable for a beginner (read "beginner" as "total chump who can't throw properly"). you may ask "triflusal, what is speed stability?" well, speed stability describes the different effects speed can have on a the stability of a disc. the faster a disc travels (NOT SPINS) the more understable it will act. the slower it travels the more stable it will act. this means that high speed understable drivers will act overstable when thrown at low speeds. the pros say overstable is bad for beginners. the beginners throw at low speeds.

okay triflusal out for the real time guyz cya later!!

 

[Widdershins]

No, but you also don't give your kid a motorcycle because you took the training wheels off their bike.

The analogy breaks down. When you crash your motorcycle you go to the hospital. When you throw a bad drive you don't harm yourself. Just the opposite, you learn from the shot and throw better next time.

Of course don't throw a Nuke in a tournament before you learn the disc, or any disc for that matter.

When candy plastic came out many players were leery of it. Now everyone throws it because it is better. The grip takes getting used to but it is well worth the learning curve.

When wide rimmed drivers came out many players were leery of it. Go play in a tournament now and in the higher divisions almost everyone uses them because their distance is unmatched. The learning curve is steep because the margin of error is small. But delaying the learning process does nothing to make it easier. The sooner you start the sooner you learn it.

 

[Widdershins]

most of these pros say don't start out with something too overstable. now you may be thinking, "but triflusal wouldn't an archon or a vulcan be a good understable disc for a new player?". Yes i can answer this do not worry. A wide rimmed undertstable disc will act speed stable for a beginner (read "beginner" as "total chump who can't throw properly"). you may ask "triflusal, what is speed stability?" well, speed stability describes the different effects speed can have on a the stability of a disc. the faster a disc travels (NOT SPINS) the more understable it will act. the slower it travels the more stable it will act. this means that high speed understable drivers will act overstable when thrown at low speeds. the pros say overstable is bad for beginners. the beginners throw at low speeds.

okay triflusal out for the real time guyz cya later!!

It looks like a Team Discraft party up there.

The topic is "The Next Step", not a raw newbie, mind you, which is what the Team quotes deal with.

Yeah, handing a beginner or any underpowered player a massively overstable disc will not help them. But flippy wide rimmed drivers can still be effective teaching tools and give more distance immediately without harming potential.

 

[Widdershins]

okay hey whats up guyz triflusal here let me break this post down for you guyz.



are you familiar with weight training at all? a good analogy would be linear progression if you are. if not than its not that useful.

But all of the older players only started out with aviars and rocs. And i cant find one case of a player that says wide rims are best for form.



this is only evidence that pros are really good at this game. Also you have no way of proving that they didnt start out with putters and midranges.



Wide rimmed discs are pretty hard to control. They do demand good form and they do punish errors. But they do not teach these things. They mask good form. they mask the true reason for the errors.

A neutral putter and a neutral midrange tell the most about someones form.

you dont teach your kids how to sprint without teaching them how to walk and run.

thanks guyz itz been real and triflusal is out

Good players started out the same way as everybody else. They got introduced to the game and had whatever odd assortment of discs they happen to start with, including drivers, of course. They flung them around and learned by trial and error and by watching others. The same way you learned. The same way I learned. The same way the folks reading this learned. Not with formal training. Not with someone handing them a lightweight Aviar and teaching them the proper grip and telling them to only throw this disc for the next year before they are ready to move up to a mid.

Understable putters are one of the most difficult discs to master. But there is nothing magical about learning them. It is a different skill to learn to control an overstable putter but not mutually exclusive (so you can figure out that different discs do different things and learn to make the adjustments needed). Every disc is a little or alot different. Learning one helps you learn the next no matter what order you start with.

Wide rimmed drivers do not mask good form. They reward good form while punishing bad. They therefore teach good form. Trial and error, remember? The smaller the margin of error the more that good form is required.

I am not advocating that the perfect starting disc is a Boss or a Nuke (although it would do no harm when mixed in with a bunch of other discs) . But this topic is about a player looking to take the next step in their progression and looking to add distance. Heck a Nuke SS or a Katana or a Blizzard Destroyer might be superb.

This progression theory was invented on the internet, not on the practice fields. How do I know that good players didn't restrict themselves to putters? Because it is contrary to human nature. We find the sport. We love the sport. We become addicted to the sport. We go out and try every disc we can get our hands on.

Ok, let me pose this question: For all of you reading this who were NOT trained by the Progression Method (like, all of you), how many of you really believe it held you back? Does anyone think the only thing holding them back from World titles and fame was they threw drivers too early?

 

[Speedly]

You're really barking up the wrong tree here. Almost all of DGCR understands that progression is the way to more distance.

 

[Mattallica]

Obvious troll is obvious

 

[robbrews]

this is something to read mr. shins
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11552
DISC DOWN!