The Twitch of the Hips

[RandyC]

Guess I should add that there are few people, like Tiger before who did twist their back. It is NOT meant to be twisted or you will definently get an injury sooner or later.

 

[scooby snack]

That's quite a manifesto. It seems to be a matter of life and death that you somehow convince someone that there may be a miniscule "twitch of the hips" a nanosecond before "strong brace".

Why?

You probably could have developed a cure for covid with the time and energy you've spent on this thread. Obsessive much?

RoDeO likes taking an opposing view and arguing endlessly with anyone he can bait.

 

[RoDeO]

Hmmm. That's sure what Paul looks like. But don't ball golfers deliberately move the hips before the shoulders rotate? They get more power that way, and also more back injuries. But if you look at Tiger when he's really bombing them his hips snap through well before the shoulders. Compare that to those shots more recently when his back was in trouble and they were rotating simultaneously, and he flipping them into sand traps and struggling.

Stokely talks about wanting hips forward and shoulders back on that recent sidearm video, not rotating simultaneous. So there may be more than one right way to do this.

Every good disc golfer rotates the hips and torso before the shoulders.

 

[seedlings]

Every good disc golfer rotates the hips and torso before the shoulders.

A really great thread would be documenting your progress in videos, giving small teaching lessons, and watching the nuevo disc golf form really catch on! The market is hot right now. Might be able to get a sponsor to get your revolutionary form off the ground. People deserve to hear this. Selling yourself short, and the entire disc golf community, by only using this thread for promotion. You can do it!

 

[RoDeO]

A really great thread would be documenting your progress in videos, giving small teaching lessons, and watching the nuevo disc golf form really catch on! The market is hot right now. Might be able to get a sponsor to get your revolutionary form off the ground. People deserve to hear this. Selling yourself short, and the entire disc golf community, by only using this thread for promotion. You can do it!

Love you bro
love you

 

[txmxer]

I've learned stuff about form from this thread.

Silver linings.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hmmm. That's sure what Paul looks like. But don't ball golfers deliberately move the hips before the shoulders rotate? They get more power that way, and also more back injuries. But if you look at Tiger when he's really bombing them his hips snap through well before the shoulders. Compare that to those shots more recently when his back was in trouble and they were rotating simultaneously, and he flipping them into sand traps and struggling.

Stokely talks about wanting hips forward and shoulders back on that recent sidearm video, not rotating simultaneous. So there may be more than one right way to do this.

Maybe in the modern golf swing theory they do that and those are the players getting injured.

 

[sidewinder22]

The problem with the door frame drill is that the motions he walks through doesn't mimic the actual disc golf throw. He shows himself leaning his weight onto his front side with his butt facing the target at that point and pulling with his arm. But that isn't what happens in a disc golf throw. In a disc golf throw the arm doesn't pull against the brace of the foot. Well, I guess it can, if you are strong arming (once again another way of showing if one is using arms or hips) the disc. In a disc golf throw, done properly, the rotation of the hips and torso whip the arm through into release. That hip and torso pull against the brace but its a completely different feeling.

You appear to be making up your own version of the door frame drill like your topsy turvy lateral shift drill you made up. The arm is doing nothing in door frame drill, it's being pulled taut like bow arrow, and the plant foot is barely on the ground if it isn't striding forward, so it can't be pulling against the front foot/brace. The rear leg is doing everything in door frame drill and when you release from the door frame your front heel plants and arm is sling shot or whipped forward automatically assuming you wind up into back leg.

In general, most people brace with the whole foot down. There are some instances where the brace is more floaty. In those cases it actually bolsters my position that hip rotation initiation happens before brace. Sidewinder emphasizes this crush the can moment as there being a solid heel down pressure brace moment. Almost exclusively though, hip rotation begins before even the ball of the lead foot plants.

It's almost like you are seeing what I am showing and trying to adjust the goalposts to make the brace happen before it actually happens. Take my baseball swing GIF for example- his hips are clearly rotating before his toe even makes solid contact. You can't think his toe is the brace can you?

You seem to ignore what I'm saying and make up your own fantastical arguments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvF6eW-by8#t=2m42s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQMV3oHs6Ug#t=2m52s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agKwNo_5K5c

 

[RoDeO]

You appear to be making up your own version of the door frame drill like your topsy turvy lateral shift drill you made up. The arm is doing nothing in door frame drill, it's being pulled taut like bow arrow, and the plant foot is barely on the ground if it isn't striding forward, so it can't be pulling against the front foot/brace. The rear leg is doing everything in door frame drill and when you release from the door frame your front heel plants and arm is sling shot or whipped forward automatically assuming you wind up into back leg.

You seem to ignore what I'm saying and make up your own fantastical arguments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvF6eW-by8#t=2m42s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQMV3oHs6Ug#t=2m52s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agKwNo_5K5c

I never made up a drill. A drill is something you do to get better at something. I was showing how the lateral shift by itself doesn't create rotation.
My thought is more along the lines of thinking a rope is attached to the backside of you front shoulder and its coiled around a giant top in back of your rear leg and you have to rotate your body to pull that rope to get the top to spin.

 

[SaROCaM]

There are some instances where the brace is more floaty.

First there was "strong brace." Now there's "floaty brace."

It's like playing Mad Libs:

_______ brace is the next step in the throwing sequence.
adjective

 

[RoDeO]

First there was "strong brace." Now there's "floaty brace."

It's like playing Mad Libs:

_______ brace is the next step in the throwing sequence.
adjective

There's times watching McBeth throw where his brace appears kind of floaty. There isn't really a pivot area the brace leg is pivoting on at times- kind of floats around.

The bottom line is there is always a brace moment where it is strong enough to throw the disc well. It's just that it's not always as strong in player to player and from throw to throw.

 

[dreadlock86]

My thought is more along the lines of thinking a rope is attached to the backside of you front shoulder and its coiled around a giant top in back of your rear leg and you have to rotate your body to pull that rope to get the top to spin.

ahahaha :doh:

well that just explains it perfectly. you have to rotate your body... so that your rear leg pivots and rotates... so that your shoulders can rotate.

:clap: you've outdone yourself!

 

[sidewinder22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZyIofeKo_U#t=2m17s

 

[RFrance]

My thought is more along the lines of thinking a rope is attached to the backside of you front shoulder and its coiled around a giant top in back of your rear leg and you have to rotate your body to pull that rope to get the top to spin.

In this video Mike Austin demonstrates with a rope that the "swing is initiated by a coordinated action of the body, arms, hands, legs, and feet..."

 

[RoDeO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZyIofeKo_U#t=2m17s

Yes, so much of what he said is true. The whole dynamic weight shift that naturally turns the hips during that shift. No shift then turn, just shift and turn at the same time.

 

[sidewinder22]

No shift then turn, just shift and turn at the same time.

My lizard brain can't think about both at same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CSHqnYNijw#t=1m30s

 

[RandyC]

My lizard brain can't think about both at same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CSHqnYNijw#t=1m30s

Just need to condition those muscles so you can resists that 30-40 pounds of arm swinging in front you. Super easy, super effortless and very healthy. You are absolutely not going to injure your back, knee, shoulder and elbow doing that.

ninjaedit:
incase there are more RoDeos out there I would advice against this. You are absolutely going to injure your back, knee, shoulder and elbow.

 

[sidewinder22]

I never made up a drill. A drill is something you do to get better at something. I was showing how the lateral shift by itself doesn't create rotation.

But you did create rotation. You were using all your might to resist rotation.

My thought is more along the lines of thinking a rope is attached to the backside of you front shoulder and its coiled around a giant top in back of your rear leg and you have to rotate your body to pull that rope to get the top to spin.

Not sure I follow. You spin a top by pulling in straight line. Wouldn't just moving the shoulder away from the hip spin it?

 

[txmxer]

Throwing is Newtonian physics. Converting momentum to force.

Following this thread has been very enlightening.

The body moves linearly as possible to a hard stop and the throwing motion is the conversion of the bodies MO to a force applied to the disc. The more efficient that conversion the more force and ideally accurate distance.

It's somewhat like a car crash dummy test.

Hips need to be shifted forward or else half the mass in the MO will transfer energy to the foot/ground. The rotation of the upper body. Is intended to increase the distance that the disk has to accelerate and thus improve energy transfer.

The back leg kick is a counter balance to the upper body shift.

 

[RoDeO]

My lizard brain can't think about both at same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CSHqnYNijw#t=1m30s

That its a dynamic weight shift and hip turn?