Trying to understand the physics if the flight better

[dyepb_16]

I've been playing for about 8 months now and have made a lot of improvements since then, but I feel like I am at the point where I need to better understand the flight physics before I can make any more big advancements. I looked around a bit but. Didn't see the answers I was looking for. I have looked at the stuff on snap but I'm still a bit confused on that vs arm speed. I know each plays a part in distance but which causes the disc to flip and which has a greater affect on distance?

People mention how the pros can throw a putter over 350'. Does this kind of distance come from a lot of arm speed and then a decreased amount of snap so the disc doesn't flip? Or am I just misunderstanding things at this point? Any help is appreciated guys.

 

[tu-f-o]

I'm no pro, but I think it helps just watching a lot of videos of pros throwing.
I think they just simply know how to control their discs. Understand yourself, and your gear. That's what it boils down to to me.

 

[morefadeplz]

Its like this:

Snap = Spin. Spin prevents the disc from deviating from it trajectory (flipping). This seems counter intuitive, but the physics back it up. Google Bike tire gyroscope. Perfect segue.

A disc is a gyroscope (assuming you spin it fast enough). By snapping a disc you create what is called "gyroscopic neutrality." Best way to understand this is that the turkey will defy gravity. Hence the turkey will fly for longer. this is really what allows advanced players to throw mids and putter farther than beginners. Similarly, this is why certain discs are better for beginners. They are more easily made gyroscopically neutral. (Physics nerd bug off for the slightly imprecise terminology).

This is not to say that snap won't make a disc TURN, but that involves altering the poitn of precession. Needless to say, this isn't the reason discs FLIP, this is the slow drift that certain discs have in late flight.

So, the question you are burning to ask... "Well what the heel does armspeed have to do with it?"

Armspeed is where the aerodynamic forces of a discs design come into play. The gyro keeps the disc from deviating, but the aerodynamics cause something different...they cause LIFT. Lift is the reason that discs don't god straight to the ground. Certain discs cause more lift than others... Armspeed also creates velocity, which is a crucial part of the distance formula. But, armspeed can be your enemy...

So, snap makes a disc hold a line, and armspeed makes the fly like a wing...what makes it turn and burn?

It is lift...damn...

Lift causes flip, so what causes excessive lift. Well one thing is a disc designed to lift. Which is analogously a disc designed to flip. So a "flippy" disc is really just a disc that wants to lift. But other things cause lift too.... The biggest one is wobble. Some people call it OAT, others cringes at that term. They identify the same thing. A wobbling disc opens the bottom of the flight plate to the air rushing past it. This causes the leading edge to raise up and lift. The lifting causes flipping. This is why a clean release is SO important. To review a point from above: Snap is spin, spin makes the gyro work, when the gyro works (1) the turkey flies (2) the disc stays on line (it doesn't lift/flip). This is why a pro can take you beat to **** DX Blizzard disc and throw it on a pure hyzer. I like to demonstrate with a 161 DX Stingray. Throw it about 350 on hyzer. Then hand it off to a new player and get them to try and not flip it over.

Still with me? Sure hope so...

So this is staring to paint the picture of how to throw far. You must throw (1) clean and (2) without wobble and (3)on line (nose angle, etc) (4) and with some velocity. In that order. this is the algorithm that makes the truth in the truism; smooth is far. Think about clean snap like throwing a spiral in football. You won't ever throw that piece of **** 15 yards if you don't spin it. Discs are the same way.

DGCR - fill in the gaps...

(For credibility sake, I threw a 179 Marshall Street Roc 505' at Nationals two weeks ago. Real distance, not internet distance.)

 

[Smigles]

spin makes the disc hold the angle it is on.

Speed makes it flip.

That's all.

 

[dyepb_16]

Thanks for he responses guys!!! Mullethead still abut confused. Generally speaking arm speed on the throw is what will flip something and snap is what will get distance because of the gyroscopic effect?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

click and read: Explanation of the physics of flying discs. :thmbup:

 

[JonRoc]

THIS ^^^^^dead on.

 

[optidiscic]

The gyroscopic effect on the disc keeping it from flipping is not entirely accurate

on a rhbh throw there will be more lift on the left side of the disc due to it's half of the disc moving into the wind and thus creating more lift than the right side of the disc where the disc rotates with the wind and creates less lift...thus ALL throws eventually flip if the disc is spinning and the more they spin the more they flip....sorry it's just basic aeronautics

The stabilizing effect that gyroscopics is for real but so is the lift and anti lift of the disc due to spin

to those of you who say a disc just flips due to arm speed...thats so silly......If u threw a disc and it didnt spin it would not just suddenly flip hahahaha...with that logic if I threw a javelin it would always turn right and kill people in the stands instead of going straight

A disc thats spinning will hold a line better due to the spin holding off low speed fade not because it is spinning.....the main reason that a pro can throw a stingray and have it not flip is because they are spinning it fast (resisting low speed fade) but don't throw the the disc with maximum armspeed, thus there isnt as much lift due to slower windspeed lifting the disc

Any power arm who throws a disc with max spin and max armspeed will flip the disc

 

[bikinjack]

Lots of misinformation in here. Sorry Opti but you're completely wrong about spin causing lift. Also mullet is mostly wrong as well. The basic shape of a flying disc will cause lift. The disc "turns" when the center of lift is behind the center of rotation. The disc "fades" when the center of lift is ahead of the center of rotation. Both of these things happen because of procession. Spin and the gyroscopic effect stabilizes the disc, or in other words keeps it flying straight. The greater the gyroscopic effect, the greater the stability. Not greater overstability, but stability.

There are ways you can throw to enhance these actions, particularly manipulating nose angles. Also the dreaded OAT, be it not following through with your arm in the same plane as the rest of your throw or wrist roll will change the way a disc flies.

 

[R-Intermediate]

^^^^^Nice job Jack. Was going to post a less articulate form of this if you hadn't.

 

[garublador]

Thanks for he responses guys!!! Mullethead still abut confused. Generally speaking arm speed on the throw is what will flip something and snap is what will get distance because of the gyroscopic effect?

I don't think that's a very useful way to think about it. Saying you need to throw with "more snap" is like saying you need to "throw it with better technique." Of course throwing it better will result in a longer, more accurate throw, but how to accomplish that is what people really want to know.

Discs do fly a bit differently when you throw with actual snap, but unless you're comfortable throwing mids up to 350' on a full throw or so and are throwing Teebirds near 400' on a full throw, you aren't really experiencing that. Until then the reason discs are turning is either becasue they're too understable (easy to fix with disc selection) or becasue of OAT. It's not because of too much "arm speed" or velocity or not enough spin.

Worrying about what will theoretically happen if you get more or less spin (which is nearly impossible to control or measure for a drive, so you won't know if you actually changed it or not) isn't much use. Get discs that are known to be controllable and predicable to fly well and far and you'll know you're throwing better.

 

[DG_player]

Here's about all you need to know:

#1 The faster a disc is going when you release it, the further it will go.

#2 The faster a disc is spinning, the harder it will try to not deviate from it's initial flight plane. (I.E. the less it will flip or fade)

#3 The faster a disc is going when you release it, the more understably it will act.

The actual physics behind them all are pretty complicated (except #1).