Understable discs

[Teamkiller]

Do you use an understable driver, fairway, mid and putter? if so do you bag an U/S disc for each "category" or only some? If some which categories and why?

Currently I have an U/S SP11 Driver - Renegade and U/S SP5 Mid - Truth (which is marketed as being O/S.... ... ... ...) that I use for anhyzers that will hold the line without fighting out early and negating the stability tailwinds add to a drive whether hyzer-flipping or a flat release.

Just curious what other people bag and why.

 

[IllustratorVir]

Do you use an understable driver, fairway, mid and putter? if so do you bag an U/S disc for each "category" or only some? If some which categories and why?

Currently I have an U/S SP11 Driver - Renegade and U/S SP5 Mid - Truth (which is marketed as being O/S.... ... ... ...) that I use for anhyzers that will hold the line without fighting out early and negating the stability tailwinds add to a drive whether hyzer-flipping or a flat release.

Just curious what other people bag and why.

For me, I typically have to use complimenting molds (Valk/Volt, Roc/Core, etc) because my stable part of the pair has not been worn in yet. That is, once I get a Roc3/KC Roc worn into an understable role, I can probably cut a core. Same goes for the Valkyrie. Once I wear in a volt that has a similar flight path, I might consider eliminating the mold. I am not a fan of overlap, it creates uncertainty and second guessing. So long as the molds have definitive roles that don't cross each other, I don't have a problem with complimenting different lines with specific molds.

 

[ru4por]

Driver-Westside King Pull as hard as I want, hard for me to turn and burn it.

Fairway-Westside Underworld Terrific for holding an anny line. Long steady turns. (Discraft XS and XPress have filled this slot at times.)

Mid-Discraft Stratus-Discraft Comet Stratus will turn, guaranteed. Comet is just so versatile, I have tried to move it out of my bag for decades without success. (Lat 64 Core has been given a chance, nice disc.)

Putter- Discraft Putt'r Don't need this often, unless some trees tell me I do.

 

[pecosROB]

When I first started playing I read that US discs are the friendliest for beginners. As I got a little bit better I started bagging more OS discs. Now I'm going back to US. My forehand is bad so whenever there is a forehand throw on the course, I pull out the Tursas. That thing will TURN for dayyyys. It's starting to become my one of my favorite molds in the bag. It will just soar when you hyzerflip it - I mean it goes further than faster drives (at least for me) when those are thrown flat.

Putters are all stable to OS. P2 and Harp is all I use for putters. Mids - Tursas, Warship (but I just lost it and it probably needed to come out anyway), Compass (this holds anny lines very well) Verdict, and Justice. Drivers - FD (will probably be replaced by a Seer if not Underworld), Felon, Boatman, and old run King (more OS/less flippy than current runs). P2 is currently the only non Trilogy mold in the bag, and I don't see that coming out anytime soon. Recently retired the PD - one of my favorite molds. I might build an all Discmania bag and heavily utilize it, we'll see. But I'm really liking what I have right now.

OP, you're right about the Truth. The new retooled Truth called the EMac Truth is closer to 5|5|0|2 and the previous run will be stamped 5|5|-1|1. However, I feel the Compass is pretty close in stability to the Truth and it just comes out of my hand nicely. Both are great mids, though.

 

[FrontRimBanger]

I've found that most truly US discs (drivers especially) are gimicky. I've recently been testing the DGA Sail and it could turn and burn one throw or it could perform a perfect s curve. They're not reliable enough to warrant me bagging them. However, I do bag an Evidence which I've beaten the crap out of and its now consistently US. Just my 2 cents

 

[BirdieMachine]

I've found that most truly US discs (drivers especially) are gimicky. I've recently been testing the DGA Sail and it could turn and burn one throw or it could perform a perfect s curve. They're not reliable enough to warrant me bagging them. However, I do bag an Evidence which I've beaten the crap out of and its now consistently US. Just my 2 cents

Well for sure there are degrees of turn, that's why the Sail is a -5, it's going to be very touchy at any decent speed.

I like the Katana and Sidewinder, Fuse and Pure. Right weight and plastic for each mold. Though I bought a new SW a while back and it's too flippy. Argh. :thmbdown: Now I'm thinking maybe try a Saint.

 

[Improbably]

I've found that most truly US discs (drivers especially) are gimicky. I've recently been testing the DGA Sail and it could turn and burn one throw or it could perform a perfect s curve. They're not reliable enough to warrant me bagging them. However, I do bag an Evidence which I've beaten the crap out of and its now consistently US. Just my 2 cents

I think warp speed extreme understable distance drivers are gimmicky they are a way to sell warp speed discs to people who do not have the ability to use warp speed discs.

But I do think understable fairways and moderately understable distance drivers are essential.

 

[slowplastic]

The slower the disc the more neutral I prefer, that way I can control the flight from release angle (and on turnovers or annies they don't have the speed/stability to fight and fade out hard). Faster discs that need to be up to speed I feel like the HSS characteristics matter a lot more. I also FH a lot for shots that go to the right (or can't go left), so I don't need turnovers and annies for lots of mid shots as I can flick a putter or mid.

So for putters I just like something neutral that will hold any line, and maybe something with more HSS for wind or hyzers. Mids I currently just bag something with a -1/1 stability so that it will hyzer flip straight, or turnover or anny, plus a stable/OS mold for straight in wind and hyzers. I can see the point of slightly US + stable + OS though in this speed category if you want to throw turnovers with US and annies with stable.

When I go to fairways and distance then I have the full spectrum from turnover, to -1/2 type flights for long range, to 0/2 for dead straight/sweep hyzers/annies, to 0/4 type discs for power/wind/hyzers. I just find that at these speeds the discs want to fly a certain way so I just have to let them do their thing. That being said in calm conditions in an open field I could mimic a lot of flights between the discs, but if there's wind or a few trees to avoid those differences are very important.

TL;DR: Slower discs I want to just hold the same line that I control. Faster discs that have more shape to the flight or are more affected by wind, I feel like I want the full spectrum since slight variances can have drastically different flights at that speed and range.

 

[slowplastic]

Though I bought a new SW a while back and it's too flippy. Argh. :thmbdown: Now I'm thinking maybe try a Saint.

I've thrown a couple champ Sidewinders that were as stable as a fresh Saint (didn't have them long enough to see how far they beat in though). I think Saints are like -1/2 most conditions but eventually I had one season to -2/1. It's like a drifty turn that keeps drifting, whereas a star Sidewinder actually flips up and over for a much longer duration of its flight. The Saint is like a "wiggle" in the throw and the Sidewinder is actually a long consistent turn. Similar in a way but I actually like that I know I will overpower the Sidewinder's HSS every time, where the Saint might pop up and ride, or drift right the whole time. That was a while ago though, maybe now with a bit more arm speed they would be easier to overpower at will.

 

[bankiebomber]

The thing about US discs is that they are more finicky and thus less easy and reliable to use. Like all discs, US discs must be thrown at the rated speed to preform to their other flight numbers. So if you take a Mamba (11 speed) and throw it at say speed 9 it will go straight, at say speed 7 it will act like an over stable disc. Therefore getting the speed right is critical.

Naturally OS discs are more forgiving because they will fade at most speeds and can be thrown with less speed control to reliably fade.

I throw a Mamba, straight, turns over and big distance. I disc I immediately clicked with
TD , slight fade at end of straight flight and hyper flips
River, straight slower woodsy shots
Comet straight and turn over approaches, stand still shots and awkward stances (can't beat the glide)
Light opto mace, and beat zero hard Mace, straight, turn over with slight fade and hyper flips.
Zero Soft Pure, straight and turn over approaches, some longer putts.

I know there's a lot of overlap but I'm happy with the selection. If I'm on form it's generally one of theses discs I'll choose for most shots. If I'm off I'll start to go more OS. A good round is one when the Comet is working.

 

[FrontRimBanger]

Katana and Sidewinder, Fuse and Pure

Sorry, I phrased it wrong. By "truly understable" I meant flippy. I bag a pure myself.

 

[lyleoross]

Really, US drivers are gimicky, all of them? That seems a reach. I wonder if they collude? "Hey Gateway, we noticed you're coming out with a new US disc, it's unreliable and gimmicky right?"

US discs are like OS discs, the better and more knowledgeable the thrower, the better the outcome. US discs seem more finicky because they are less tolerant of bad throws than OS discs, at least in terms of a wipeout. If you overthrow an OS disc, with lousy technique, it will fly straighter. If you overthrow an US disc with lousy technique, it flips and lands on it's side.

The reason that companies recommend that newbies use US discs is that if you throw with good technique, but low power, an US disc will fly well and reasonably long. That's why most Pros, in a stand and deliver situation, go to a less stable disc, they can't deliver as much power in that situation. If you combine too much power, with bad technique, you will get more distance from an OS disc than an US. Short term gain, long term loss. That is, the US disc requires better technique to get it to stay in the air, and rewards better throws.

 

[lyleoross]

I use an US disc in every category, I get there using different methods. I use an ECHO Destroyer, because they are naturally understable, but my Star versions are stable to slightly overstable. I use the Scorpius for Wind. For fairways, I use a Sirius JLS, vs a Leopard. The JLS is slightly overstable, whereas the the Leopard is slightly under (remember, results vary player to player). I don't have an into the wind fairway, I go to a LF Orion. I use the three Buzzes, but the OS version is a wind HOG! Putters; Rhyno, Panzer, Tank. I really like the thumb tracks for controlled up shots. But, I putt with a Colt.

 

[DanJon]

I love flippy discs. You can pull off some amazing shots if you have good form.

They also work great in case you don't have a solid FH.

 

[lyleoross]

I love flippy discs. You can pull off some amazing shots if you have good form.

They also work great in case you don't have a solid FH.

Dan hits the nail on the head, good form is key! If you muscle an US disc you're lost. If you snap the heck out of it, you will get your longest shots, period.

 

[Teamkiller]

Nice, great comments everyone. Was just curious what everyone else's sentiments were on the US discs, I can remember the mamba being my favorite disc for the first few months (and my longest disc) I haven't used it in over 3 months because even with a hyzerflip it was turning over and never coming back. I may just have to pull it out for a round now and see if I just wasnt looking for the appropriate throw to keep it in my bag. I do use my witness and renegade often however.

 

[ThrowBot]

For drivers and fairways, I carry a spectrum of stable-to-US discs in a variety of speeds. I don't have any putters and mids that are traditionally considered understable, but some are seasoned enough that they fly US. I carry a beat-to-heck pro D hawk that is probably the flippiest disc in my bag, but that's used more during my warm up and rarely comes out during a round.

 

[slowplastic]

Really, US drivers are gimicky, all of them? That seems a reach.

I think the warp speed understable stuff is a bit gimmicky too. It needs to be thrown a certain speed for it to act US like it is designed to...and to throw it at that speed you already need to have pretty good form (to hit that arm speed while still not torquing at all). I feel like either you just get to that point and the disc is perfect for your max range disc for a while, or you can throw significantly harder than the disc needs to be thrown so it's a good 70-80% power disc. Anywhere else and they are a bit problematic. I'm sure people can throw some of those flippy drivers farther than I can, but I feel like there's a speed/range cap on where they are predictable, and if I throw harder than that then a more stable driver will actually go further because I can trust it more.

My point is, when companies market those discs as "easy distance", I think what it actually means is "if you can already throw 400', you can back off on this disc and it'll cruise 400'!". But, if you throw 350' it might give you some extra distance sometimes with the same strength of throw, but it will also likely be less predictable.

I feel like if you are in the range where those might get you a bit of extra distance and you're just maybe able to get them up to speed, you're probably better off throwing something like a Sidewinder where it's definitely up to speed and gliding its full flight pattern.

That being said those discs can have a place for certain shots, and are a good form tool since they are so sensitive and are thrown hard.

 

[OB Four]

I think outside of the obvious reasons to carry an U/S mold (hyzerflips, heavily wooded areas, rollers, etc..) I never really thought to use them on shots where I want to hyzer bomb over trees or whatever, but don't quite have the arm to put out a OS or even straight to stable mold because they want to come back down a lot quicker. Using an U/S mold for big sweeping hyzers and even high over the top shots where I need a bit more carry before hyzering out has been adding a new element to my game.

Another area it's helped a lot is my forehand game. Definitely helping me get more accurate distance flicking something U/S on hyzer than trying to blast an O/S disc all the time.

That said... i carry an element or beat up roc for my U/S mid. Impulse for fairway. Beat up destroyer for drivers. I just recently added a havoc which I didn't expect to like, but it is an amazingly controllable U/S driver- very underrated I'm surprised more people don't like or don't seem to at least.

 

[Agricolae]

Do you use an understable driver, fairway, mid and putter? if so do you bag an U/S disc for each "category" or only some? If some which categories and why?

Just curious what other people bag and why.

I love throwing US to flippy discs in the woods on appropriate lines. I agree with all who said they require finesse as opposed to all-out power.

My method - unconventional by some, scorned by others - is beat in DX molds. Currently in the big bag are a DX Sonic (compliments an Opto Pure, Pro Rhyno, ESP Zone); DX Stingray (US bookend to 3 KC Pro Rocs ranging from slightly US to OS); DX Leopard (US bookend to a Pro-, Star-, and Glow Champ Leopard); and a DX Valkyrie (US compliment to a Star Valkyrie.)

The flippy discs are course specific and used primarily for lines requiring a full hyser-flat-anhyser flight. I just played a course this afternoon where the DX Leopard and DX Valkyrie saw a fair bit of use off the tee ... all to good effect. Other courses, they never come out of the bag.