Val drops Innova?

[DavidSauls]

The very fact that the players can only throw Innova discs and not other brands, I'd say there is a continuity of relationship there for sure. If the players were indy contractors, they would be allowed to wear and throw whatever other brand(s) they wanted to.

I bet they're not considered employees.

They're free to set their own hours, choose their own tournaments, get paid (mostly) by others, throw discs they own (even if given by Innova), and aren't actually doing labor for the company. They're advertising by affiliating with its products. They're also free to strike up endorsement deals with non-disc-manufacturers, such as a shoe company.

And I'll bet Innova's attorneys have structured the contracts to make sure the sponsored players are not employees.

 

[ranger]

WWE wrestlers are independent contractors. They seem much more like regular employees compared to DG pros.

 

[lyleoross]

Even the most stubborn woman can get sick of it after prolonged exposure, or make the decision to withdraw and do something else in better company.

Do women tailor their behavior to meet men's expectations in typically female settings? Say the Ellen show where the audience is 90% female.

The truth is that both men and women modify their behavior in mixed company. This shouldn't surprise anyone. However, rarely do we expect women to modify their behavior to meet the expectations of men in gender dominated environments. Some of that is because we live in a world where men have typically had the advantage and have been catered to so it is necessary that they move to accommodate women. I'm just not sure that disc golf hasn't done a good bit of that or that it's even necessary.

You can't argue that women have been denied access to disc golf in the ways they've been denied access to jobs, education, and politics. Or even ball golf for that matter. I've been in too many events where divisions have been modified to encourage female participation to think the sport isn't trying.

 

[DiscFifty]

Oh man, a great opportunity to properly use the word. Yours is a very... salient point.

lol..ok..that was funny. lol..

 

[Aim For The Chains]

WWE wrestlers are independent contractors. They seem much more like regular employees compared to DG pros.

I knew you had a 2nd hobby.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Not going to read the thread, so this might have been covered.

Maybe Val should start the WPDGA.

 

[teemkey]

The notion that women might not want to put up with male behavior sort of sells women short. Oh those poor delicate creatures who can't handle male behavior.

Data!

The 2016 Chick Flick drew nearly 100 female disc golfers.

Why then, you might ask, do mixed gender C-Tiers rarely (if ever) draw 10 female players?

 

[lyleoross]

Good grief.

All I will say is: NO. Delicate or otherwise, women DON'T put up with crap male behavior, especially in places like DG golf courses!

Not sure you actually replied to what I wrote. But good grief, women do put up with this, all the time. Try Fox news if you want an example.

It is reported that one in six women are raped in our country, and two in five are abused. Yet the actual number of cases brought is significantly lower. Women put up with a great deal. It's a good thing that we're concerned about their ears.

The notion that men act, in public, in the socially unacceptable ways they act when there are only men around severely underestimates the genetically driven need that men have, not to offend all women within hearing range.

Crude language as opposed to crude behavior are different things. Our acceptance of crude behavior is beyond the pale. Our obsession with crude language distracts us from the real issue. If Innova took financial advantage of Val, relative to the value she brought vs the value a male pro brought, something we can't assess, then this behavior is wrong. Two guys belching and farting is disgusting but not the same. A guy hitting on a fellow player, or talking about his sexual relationships in front of a female player is unacceptable. In my twenty years of disc golf, I've never seen or heard about that happening.

 

[slowplastic]

Kind of related, kind of different...

If you had an one division tournament (includes MPO, FPO, Masters, etc.) and all holes are <325' or so...how many of the FPO players do you think would be in the top 5? What about masters players?

Have any tournies like this happened? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[lyleoross]

Data!

The 2016 Chick Flick drew nearly 100 female disc golfers.

Why then, you might ask, do mixed gender C-Tiers rarely (if ever) draw 10 female players?

You're right, women didn't come to the C tiers because men were there. It's all so obvious now.

Come on Team, you can do better. BTB, this argument suggests there is merit to the notion there is a female market out there. The question is, how big is it, and does it merit full support by a manufacturer? I'm sure, given the lack of support in the sport for women, that this event had no sponsors.

Actually, I'd be curious to know if the level of sponsorship matched what would have been given to a similar men's event when the PDGA had the same number of men as there are currently female players?

 

[That325guy]

In case anyone is not aware, here are links to Nate & Val's micro brewing venture:

http://www.bevelbeer.com/our-story

https://www.gofundme.com/bevel

So, does Innova request her to take their patent picture of a bevel-edged disc off of Nate and Val's brewing venture? What about the use of Innova's name on the Bevel Beer website?

 

[lyleoross]

Someone mentioned a WPDGA. Perhaps a tour with a handful of pro women players going to major sites? Personally, I'd be willing to have the PDGA spend some cash on such a venture. It would explore the idea, could be marketed and might even catch some national news as a topic piece.

 

[lyleoross]

So, does Innova request her to take their patent picture of a bevel-edged disc off of Nate and Val's brewing venture? What about the use of Innova's name on the Bevel Beer website?

I think the patent has expired but you'll need someone with more knowledge.

 

[teemkey]

You're right, women didn't come to the C tiers because men were there. It's all so obvious now.

Come on Team, you can do better. BTB, this argument suggests there is merit to the notion there is a female market out there. The question is, how big is it, and does it merit full support by a manufacturer? I'm sure, given the lack of support in the sport for women, that this event had no sponsors.

Actually, I'd be curious to know if the level of sponsorship matched what would have been given to a similar men's event when the PDGA had the same number of men as there are currently female players?

Well, PDGA Tiers are defined by amount of added cash, which is directly related to sponsorship, so I don't think there's a clear argument to made on that point. Further, sponsorship is primarily the responsibility of the TD and/or group organizing the event; hence may at best be a fuzzy concept to analyze -- though I agree it would be interesting.

The question is: Why do >10x the usual number of women at a mixed gender C-Tier attend an all female C-Tier?

I think Occam's Razor would favor the hypothesis that women prefer an all female event.

 

[ranger]

I knew you had a 2nd hobby.

Where you been bruh?

I used to talk about it all the time with thug before he lost his mind.

You want to come over my house for wrestlemania this year? My wife is making pizza rolls.

 

[DavidSauls]

The question is: Why do >10x the usual number of women at a mixed gender C-Tier attend an all female C-Tier?

I think Occam's Razor would favor the hypothesis that women prefer an all female event.

Probably. Though there are so few female-only events that they are a special attraction. If there were as many as there are mixed-gender events, they wouldn't be attended at quite the same level (though perhaps, still better than they are now).

 

[Consult20]

Not going to read the thread, so this might have been covered.

Maybe Val should start the WPDGA.

Someone mentioned a WPDGA. Perhaps a tour with a handful of pro women players going to major sites? Personally, I'd be willing to have the PDGA spend some cash on such a venture. It would explore the idea, could be marketed and might even catch some national news as a topic piece.

Actually it was the LPDGA I mentioned earlier, maybe an all female organization would have more success getting more females involved in the sport.

As far as why female only events attract so many more players, I'm sure a female player could give a better answer. But no doubt part of it is because they just feel more comfortable throwing in front of other females. I've seen females stop throwing many times when our all male group catches up with them. The guys they are with will throw, but the girls will just stop throwing until "the coast is clear" again. I feel bad for them, but it's a really common thing.

 

[Consult20]

So, does Innova request her to take their patent picture of a bevel-edged disc off of Nate and Val's brewing venture? What about the use of Innova's name on the Bevel Beer website?

I doubt Innova would balk at free advertising.

 

[AndyJB]

Everyones over here talking about Val's achievements and Im just over here living in the same town as Kathy Hardyman and playing my heart out just to beat her during tag matches...

 

[lyleoross]

Well, PDGA Tiers are defined by amount of added cash, which is directly related to sponsorship, so I don't think there's a clear argument to made on that point. Further, sponsorship is primarily the responsibility of the TD and/or group organizing the event; hence may at best be a fuzzy concept to analyze -- though I agree it would be interesting.

The question is: Why do >10x the usual number of women at a mixed gender C-Tier attend an all female C-Tier?

I think Occam's Razor would favor the hypothesis that women prefer an all female event.

Good points. I don't think it's Occam's razor though, I think you're correct, women prefer an all female field. I'm not sure I'd conclude it's because there are no men. If you had, for example, a split field, 50/50, what would you get? For sure we are biased, in our non social play, towards are own sex. Even if the male field was made up of Sir Galahads I suspect your still see a bias.

That of course makes one wonder how the female field would do with a female series?