WACO Charity Open presented by Prodigy

[araytx]

My opinion is you have to play to the situation. Given that Ella had already given up strokes 2 holes prior going out of bounds on a drive that had no business even being near of bounds, my thought would be to go for a higher percentage shot. If anything, I was surprised Kristin didn't go for it. It seems either: 1) her arm wasn't feeling up to it, or 2) She was daring Ella to go for it.

Of course hind sight is 20/20 and typically I agree with you that it is best to play to your strengths. Live by the sword, die by the sword I guess.

I get it. Everyone has an opinion. And yes 20/20, how you say, "Hindsight is perfect." I just think you HAVE to do what you've practiced when the scores are close or do what you do best. Ella only had a one-throw lead at that time. You can just as easily mess up a layup as she did the throw across (see below). And how many of us would feel OK with our feelings if we LOSE doing a shot we hadn't practiced or had barely practiced but wasn't in the game plan? I do think you have to live and die by it, the old "dance with the one who brung ya," as we say in Texas. You have to be the player you are. Ricky isn't gonna win trying to be Paul and Ella isn't gonna win trying to be Kristin.

With 3 holes to go Ella should not be able to loose this. . .but the same as with Hokom vs Paige a few years back. . those last holes must mess with your mind.
Just play them for par and they dont look THAT hard. . sure the birdy is hard, but then you don NEED the birdy why go for it?
But that 2nd throw on 17 was really bad, and so was the drive on 16. . .Ella has a "have never won wall" to break

In 2018, Sarah Hokom had a two-throw lead on Paige Pierce going into the final hole at WACO. (FYI, I think 18's basket was further back more in the middle of the peninsula than close to the water across like it is now, but not sure). She did as Foxdawg implied; tried to throw a "safe shot," and her backhand layup left attempt caught a skip then a bad bounce at the sidewalk and stayed OB left. She was so far back she couldn't even go across the water on her then 3rd throw, and had to layup short of the water again, now throwing 4 across the water. Paige goes for it across the water off the tee and clears, though deep in C2. After both approaches (Paige actually went for the W and drew metal) Sarah misses her putt, ends up taking a 6, and Paige can drop in for 3 and the win.

Now on my philosophy, you do what you do best. I get that Sarah was trying for the backhand layup to avoid skipping toward the OB water. But with a two-throw lead, I felt she should have stayed with her forehand, her best shot, on the layup short side of the water. Just try to make a good shot and the WORST that happens is that your sidearm does skip into the water -- but even so, you're throwing 3 across from way closer and if you can get up & down for 4, you'll force Paige to make that deep C2 putt just to force a playoff -- and in most cases still win. She may not have been thinking that, but that's why I say go with what you do best -- anytime you're in a pressure situation, certainly go with your original game plan if at all feasible.

23:28 if it doesn't start there.

Kirsten did not go Birdy-Birdy-Birdy but close

But that must have been her wierdest finnish of all time. .even more so than the strange one last year.

She missed her C1x putt on 12,13,14,15 and 17. . and still won?!? being far behind with a few holes to go. and still shot a 990 round

A -- maybe HER weirdest finish, but not the most so. That 2018 FPO final two holes had Paige up by 2 going into 17. Paige makes a quad, while Sarah pars, giving Sarah the 2-throw lead going to 18. Then that ^^^ happened.


B -- ftfy

 

[foxdawg10]

I get it. Everyone has an opinion. And yes 20/20, how you say, "Hindsight is perfect." I just think you HAVE to do what you've practiced when the scores are close or do what you do best. Ella only had a one-throw lead at that time. You can just as easily mess up a layup as she did the throw across (see below). And how many of us would feel OK with our feelings if we LOSE doing a shot we hadn't practiced or had barely practiced but wasn't in the game plan? I do think you have to live and die by it, the old "dance with the one who brung ya," as we say in Texas. You have to be the player you are. Ricky isn't gonna win trying to be Paul and Ella isn't gonna win trying to be Kristin.
.....

This is why I have compassion for Ella for her feelings afterward, but I don't necessarily feel bad for her. She took her best shot, played like she knows how to play and it ended up not working out. She is relatively new to the sport, and playing against someone like Kristin will definitely expose any weaknesses in her game. And hopefully will make her a stronger and better player. She definitely has the power game. Once her finesse game comes around, she will be tough to beat. Look at Simon last year. When he scaled down a bit, he started to win consistently.

Kudos to Kristin. She displayed the heart of a champion, and also was incredibly classy in how she handled the situation.

 

[redflyer717]

Kristin said in an interview that she didn't know her score until the very last hole and she thought the whole time she didn't have any chance to win, said she "basically gave up because she didn't know". The last hole knowing her score she focused and made the putt for the win.

 

[DavidSauls]

I didn't watch any of the live coverage yesterday. Did DGN do a good job kicking over to chase card footage since there were a bunch of people within striking distance?

A winner from the chase card isn't typical, but hopefully they were able to show some of Klein's footage since he was the winner.

Yes. The coverage was dizzying, flipping between the top 2 cards. I'm pretty sure we saw most or all of Klein's shots, particularly on the final 9.

I had not seen the prior rounds and was unfamiliar with the course. They were changing cameras so fast I was having trouble keeping up with where they were, but fortunately was watching with a couple of people who could keep me straight.

 

[txmxer]

It's all about the spectators. DGPT would like to be out of public parks entirely eventually.

Good point. That's been mentioned before and the desire is understandable from a tour operator standpoint.

From a fan's view of watching, I much prefer a course that creates a competitive environment with numerous potential winners.

 

[ejvogie]

DGPT would like to be out of public parks entirely eventually.

I understand why, but I hope they'd prioritize private courses (maybe they are? IDK) over driving ranges.

 

[DannyS]

Yes. The coverage was dizzying, flipping between the top 2 cards. I'm pretty sure we saw most or all of Klein's shots, particularly on the final 9.

I had not seen the prior rounds and was unfamiliar with the course. They were changing cameras so fast I was having trouble keeping up with where they were, but fortunately was watching with a couple of people who could keep me straight.

This is an issue that DGN needs to figure out. I appreciate very much all the action they are trying to show, but it is very hard to keep up with all the shots and where the player is when they switch to their shot. They also have to figure out a better system of showing the scores. Many times you see a certain player is -15 on the leader board, then they show that players putt for birdie a few minutes later that putt him to -15 and you think he just went to -16. Overall it is challenging to keep up with what exactly is going on during the live broadcast.

 

[DavidSauls]

This is an issue that DGN needs to figure out. I appreciate very much all the action they are trying to show, but it is very hard to keep up with all the shots and where the player is when they switch to their shot. They also have to figure out a better system of showing the scores. Many times you see a certain player is -15 on the leader board, then they show that players putt for birdie a few minutes later that putt him to -15 and you think he just went to -16. Overall it is challenging to keep up with what exactly is going on during the live broadcast.

I get a little lost if I'm casually watching golf, too. But the pace is slower -- this weekend, they were following 10 players in 2 groups in a sport that moves about twice as fast as golf.

I don't watch a lot of disc golf, but I presume it doesn't happen like that, very often.

I could have used a constant reminder. "Back to Orum on hole 12...." sort of thing.

But it's a nice problem to have. It sure beats watching someone with an 8-stroke lead, just cruising toward the finish.

 

[glassila]

I really liked the "Birdie Zone" (not sure what it was actually called) where they showed a satellite view of the hole and the locations of the 4 drives.
I think it was only used on hole #1 each day. I imagine it would be difficult to do this during live coverage which is why it was only done on one hole.

 

[foxdawg10]

I get a little lost if I'm casually watching golf, too. But the pace is slower -- this weekend, they were following 10 players in 2 groups in a sport that moves about twice as fast as golf.

I don't watch a lot of disc golf, but I presume it doesn't happen like that, very often.

I could have used a constant reminder. "Back to Orum on hole 12...." sort of thing.

But it's a nice problem to have. It sure beats watching someone with an 8-stroke lead, just cruising toward the finish.

Yes, cameras were moving fast and furious. I believe it was because so many players were within 2 strokes on the front 9. At one point there were twelve.

 

[nothinbuttree]

One other issue DGPT needs to consider (IMHO) is how many events will be on temp courses. DG'ers in general like to play nice looking courses they have seen on camera, so the more of their events that end up being temp courses, the less this will happen. I would love to play the Ledgestone Lake Eureka layout, but will likely never be able to.

Conversely, we also like watching pros play on courses we are familiar with, so if they are always playing on courses no one but 1000+ rated players have tried, that will impact viewership.

That's why I like the Idlewild and Toboggan events so much, I am very familiar with both courses, and really can appreciate the drives the pros make.

Just something to think about...

 

[DavidSauls]

I agree with the sentiment, but relatively few courses are designed tough enough to really challenge 1040-rated players.

Throw in all the other considerations -- spectators, facilities, bandwidth, host community, calendar, etc. -- and it must make it tough to match those relatively few gold-level courses to an event.

Though fortunately, the growth of disc golf means growth everywhere, including in top-tier-capable venues.

 

[elmexdela]

One other issue DGPT needs to consider (IMHO) is how many events will be on temp courses. DG'ers in general like to play nice looking courses they have seen on camera, so the more of their events that end up being temp courses, the less this will happen. I would love to play the Ledgestone Lake Eureka layout, but will likely never be able to.

Conversely, we also like watching pros play on courses we are familiar with, so if they are always playing on courses no one but 1000+ rated players have tried, that will impact viewership.

That's why I like the Idlewild and Toboggan events so much, I am very familiar with both courses, and really can appreciate the drives the pros make.

Just something to think about...

waco/beast in regular layout is a catfish course

dgpt makes the product look very well on camera

 

[nothinbuttree]

waco/beast in regular layout is a catfish course

dgpt makes the product look very well on camera

I've never played there or even looked it up--is the normal layout quite different than what we see? Kind of like Lake Eureka?

 

[nothinbuttree]

I agree with the sentiment, but relatively few courses are designed tough enough to really challenge 1040-rated players.

Throw in all the other considerations -- spectators, facilities, bandwidth, host community, calendar, etc. -- and it must make it tough to match those relatively few gold-level courses to an event.

Though fortunately, the growth of disc golf means growth everywhere, including in top-tier-capable venues.

Great points for sure. I am hopeful too that the continued growth (thinking Eagles Crossing and Lake Marshall for instance, of top flight newer courses that can challenge the big arms) will get more traction, replacing the golf courses on tour. One or two are fine, but like others, stock hyzer after stock hyzer with no elevation change or trees gets old real fast.

I've never been to a live event, I have to wonder how a public park like Idlewild even does a tournament--does the entire park get gated for entry? Are casual park goers allowed to roam around?

 

[Luckj]

Great points for sure. I am hopeful too that the continued growth (thinking Eagles Crossing and Lake Marshall for instance, of top flight newer courses that can challenge the big arms) will get more traction, replacing the golf courses on tour. One or two are fine, but like others, stock hyzer after stock hyzer with no elevation change or trees gets old real fast.

I've never been to a live event, I have to wonder how a public park like Idlewild even does a tournament--does the entire park get gated for entry? Are casual park goers allowed to roam around?

I've been to spectate at Idlewild. The area around the disc golf is technically closed but it is a large park and the rest of it is still open. In fact, if you park in one of the lots away from the course it's pretty easy to wander in and spectate without purchasing a ticket since they only checked tickets near the parking area for fans (I did have a ticket).
Idlewild also closes the course for an archery tournament that uses the fairways so locals are used to certain areas being off limits on occasion. Getting hit by a stray disc would suck but a stray arrow...

 

[elmexdela]

I've never played there or even looked it up--is the normal layout quite different than what we see? Kind of like Lake Eureka?

think hot dog shaped design with front 9 with all the wide open holes and back 9 being the wooded ones

and now add pedestrians over crowding randomly in the park to the mix on the course its self or along the walking paths

the cameras deceive it to look like this well balanced beautiful park along side the river on some holes

lake eureka was much better in person but i am biased cuz i love my heavy wooded holes and i can do without the open hero holes i did want to play the water tower hole oddly enough and was bummed to see it wasnt set up

 

[elmexdela]

I've never played there or even looked it up--is the normal layout quite different than what we see? Kind of like Lake Eureka?

to clarify no its not like lake eureka however that is also another style of catfish

 

[robdeforge]

I really liked the "Birdie Zone" (not sure what it was actually called) where they showed a satellite view of the hole and the locations of the 4 drives.
I think it was only used on hole #1 each day. I imagine it would be difficult to do this during live coverage which is why it was only done on one hole.

I'm pretty sure they also used it on hole 17 during FPO in the final round. which was great, because it really helped to show who had the best angles to attack the green

 

[pmay5]

I'm pretty sure they also used it on hole 17 during FPO in the final round. which was great, because it really helped to show who had the best angles to attack the green

I was going to say the same thing. The aerial shot, with each drive marked with the player's initials, really showed you well what each one was looking at for their second shot. That is a great hole to do that on and very insightful.

So much of the BEast is in the woods, or a straight away open shot, that that was not possible, or needed.

I can't believe what a thin piece of land that course is located on. When watching the Live scores on UDisc, you can click on the course name and the UDisc page will open. Then click on the course layout and you will see they literally go up one side of the property, then back down the other, amazing we didn't see errand drives kicking into another fairway.

Also, it looks like they change the hole lineup for the WACO, to ensure they finish on 17 and 18, a good decision.