Why Directional Aid Illegal?

[Cgkdisc]

813.02 Illegal Device
A. ...Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed...

What do you suppose is the reason behind this rule for disc golf?

At the PGA Championship today: "We got lucky there, could have been a 10," Lowry could be heard saying as he carried his own bag from the beach (where his shot landed) with his caddie back on the ridge to provide a target line for the ambitious shot.

In ball golf, the caddie can physically stand in the line of play, but presumably a DG caddie would qualify as a directional aid "object" per our rule and not be allowed? The only rationale I can see for our rule is that a player would be placing something in front of their lie, i.e. moving/adding objects on the course. Although if our rule allowed temporary objects including people to provide a directional line (that must be removed upon completing the throw) would that be a problem? In fact, if a player's shot actually struck the directional aid, they would be penalized under the Interference rule.

 

[hiflyer]

Personally, I would prefer not to wait for everyone to walk the hole, take the time to ensure the object is lined up, walk back to the lie (not on it), line up the shot visually, realize they are out of position, then do it again. If you can get it out there, get your lie, and throw, within 30 secs, then maybe ok.

As for the caddie as an aid, everyone must have a caddie willing to be thrown on, or no one gets to use one as a directional aid. A la cart rule.

tee-hee. A la carte.

 

[txmxer]

In casual play my friends and I have helped with blind up shots to know where the giant basket is. Mainly it is a time saver.

Like many rules in DG, I assume it is a FairPlay rule. If the sport evolves such that everyone has this type if assistance it is still fair play. Until then it seems reasonable.

 

[jakebake91]

Like many rules in DG, I assume it is a FairPlay rule. If the sport evolves such that everyone has this type if assistance it is still fair play. Until then it seems reasonable.

A directional aid seems far more accessible to everyone than a range finder, but those are legal.

 

[txmxer]

A directional aid seems far more accessible to everyone than a range finder, but those are legal.

Maybe. I don't know why they changed that rule.

Regardless, for me, if I need a range finder the answer is always the same: it's farther than I can throw, so grip it and rip it. Walk up and do it again.

 

[rocthecourse]

I don't understand why directional aids are illegal.

Shouldn't it also be illegal to have tall flags on the tops of baskets on holes with hills that block the view of the basket from the tee? That is a directional aid.

 

[rocthecourse]

In casual play my friends and I have helped with blind up shots to know where the giant basket is. Mainly it is a time saver.

Like many rules in DG, I assume it is a FairPlay rule. If the sport evolves such that everyone has this type if assistance it is still fair play. Until then it seems reasonable.

The rule could make the "directional aid" be an object and not a person. In the past when I used a direction aid I used my water bottle. Something like a cone or a flag would work even better, though that is one more thing you would have to carry around.*



*If the rule gets changed they would probably have to make it so that you receive a penalty if you hit your directional aid(like if you disc hits your bag.)

 

[hiflyer]

I don't understand why directional aids are illegal.

Shouldn't it also be illegal to have tall flags on the tops of baskets on holes with hills that block the view of the basket from the tee? That is a directional aid.

I'd think that the flag was course equipment and not a directional aid: same as the supporting pole for the basket, or a branch, or the edge of a building. With a loose description of visual aids, i.e. the flag being considered, my thumb, or a dead branch, or even a shadow could be considered a directional aid. Heck, even the target would be an aid!!

The definition here, I believe, would include things like laying your bag on a hill in your flight path, or having your caddy stand somewhere specific to help shape a line, but not including the items mentioned earlier.

 

[txmxer]

I don't understand why directional aids are illegal.

Shouldn't it also be illegal to have tall flags on the tops of baskets on holes with hills that block the view of the basket from the tee? That is a directional aid.

Anything that is consistent like tall flags are the same for all. There could still be locations it is blocked, but it is still consistent

 

[Nale72]

813.02 Illegal Device
A. ...Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed...

What do you suppose is the reason behind this rule for disc golf?

At the PGA Championship today: "We got lucky there, could have been a 10," Lowry could be heard saying as he carried his own bag from the beach (where his shot landed) with his caddie back on the ridge to provide a target line for the ambitious shot.

In ball golf, the caddie can physically stand in the line of play, but presumably a DG caddie would qualify as a directional aid "object" per our rule and not be allowed? The only rationale I can see for our rule is that a player would be placing something in front of their lie, i.e. moving/adding objects on the course. Although if our rule allowed temporary objects including people to provide a directional line (that must be removed upon completing the throw) would that be a problem? In fact, if a player's shot actually struck the directional aid, they would be penalized under the Interference rule.

The rule is more or less the same in "ball golf", but a bit stricter on the putting green. Even there, you are not allowed to place an object or have a person standing in the line of play when making your stroke:

(1) Pointing Out Line of Play for Ball Anywhere Except on Putting Green. A player may have his or her line of play pointed out by:

Having his or her caddie or any other person stand on or close to the player's line of play to show where it is, but that person must move away before the stroke is made.
Having an object (such as a bag or towel) set down on the course to show the line of play, but the object must be removed before the stroke is made.
(2) Pointing Out Line of Play for Ball on Putting Green. Before the stroke is made, only the player and his or her caddie may point out the player's line of play, but with these limitations:

The player or caddie may touch the putting green with a hand, foot or anything he or she is holding, but must not improve the conditions affecting the stroke in breach of Rule 8.1a, and
The player or caddie must not set an object down anywhere on or off the putting green to show the line of play. This is not allowed even if that object is removed before the stroke is made.
While the stroke is being made, the caddie must not deliberately stand in a location on or close to the player's line of play or do anything else (such as pointing out a spot or creating a shadow on the putting green) to point out the line of play.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-10#10-2b

I'm pretty new to disc golf, but isn't the same applicable here, so that you may have someone show you the line of play as long as the person moves away when it's time to make the actual throw?

And this whole rule is only about placing out something that wasn't there in the first place or already is a part of the course. You can always use something already excisting as a directional aid as long as you don't move it/brake it etc.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I don't understand why directional aids are illegal.

Shouldn't it also be illegal to have tall flags on the tops of baskets on holes with hills that block the view of the basket from the tee? That is a directional aid.

I immediately thought of tall flags on baskets. Several courses use them specifically on baskets that are not visible as you play up a hill.

That flag's entire reason for being, is as a directional aid.

 

[Nale72]

I immediately thought of tall flags on baskets. Several courses use them specifically on baskets that are not visible as you play up a hill.

That flag's entire reason for being, is as a directional aid.

The thing is that directional aids are not illegal. At least as long as they are part of the course or on the course when you start to play.

What is illegal is to create your own directional aids that you use when you make your throw.

 

[biscoe]

Caddie must comply with the rules same as player. They shouldn't be out in front whether being used as a directional aid or not.

 

[Rastnav]

As Nale72 pointed out, the original question is motivated by an incorrect interpretation of ball golf rules. If the caddy did something other than indicate line of play, and remained as a directional aid while the shot was played, Lowry would be subject to penalty, and would likely be disqualified from the event (for signing an incorrect scorecard).

As to motivations for the rule (in either sport), pace of play and safety both seem reasonable as motivations, but I don't think either is the likely true intent. Scouting ahead is not prohibited, which would be the cause of the pace of play issue, and obviously inanimate objects aren't in an danger from a played shot.

I think the broad intent is simply that one must not modify the course, but play it as it is. In ball golf you are not even allowed to place a towel down to keep your knees from getting dirty if you have to play a shot off your knee(s), as this would constitute "building a stance". You are allowed to use what exists on the course as an aiming point, your caddy or partner can aid in pointing out points on the course to aim, but you can't play a stroke aiming at something that you added to the course for purposes of aiming. It's a "purity of the game" issue.

 

[Steve West]

...presumably a DG caddie would qualify as a directional aid "object" per our rule and not be allowed?

Yes, a caddie can be an object, or even equipment.

...a player would be placing something in front of their lie, i.e. moving/adding objects on the course....

There is no general prohibition against placing objects in front of the lie. Setting your bag down off to the side and a little in front of the lie is OK.

Nor is there a general underlying principle that "in front of the lie" has different rules than behind the lie.

The general rule about moving things is that you can't move anything, anywhere; with some exceptions. Granted, one of these exceptions is moving "casual obstacles that are on or behind the lie partially or completely on the lie or in the stance area," but even that rule goes on to say "regardless of whether they extend in front of or behind the lie".

The other rules about objects all apply whether the objects is on front of the lie or not.

So, for example, placing something behind you to line up with during your reach back would be just as illegal.

 

[Chains Bailey]

IMO

Range finders should be illegal - judging distance is a skill of the game.

No additional/artificial directional aid should be allowed beyond the landscape of the course itself.

 

[flatflip]

How much advantage do lead cards have from the placement of the catch cam?

 

[rocthecourse]

The thing is that directional aids are not illegal. At least as long as they are part of the course or on the course when you start to play.

What is illegal is to create your own directional aids that you use when you make your throw.

So you could go to the course before the tournament and place marks to aim at and that would be legal since they would be part of the course at the start of the tournament?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

So you could go to the course before the tournament and place marks to aim at and that would be legal since they would be part of the course at the start of the tournament?

That seems shady. If the TD or the park install them, that's one thing, but no player should alter the course in a way that wasn't intended by the TD or the course owner.

How much advantage do lead cards have from the placement of the catch cam?

I wouldn't think much, because a directional aid helps when you can't see the basket. If you can't see the basket, chances are you can't see the catch cam.

 

[oldmandiscer]

A directional aid seems far more accessible to everyone than a range finder, but those are legal.

My only issue is that Range finders can also provide slope adjustment as well. Which is a significant advantage on some courses which are very hilly. Some courses have 200 foot markers and such so players without a range finder can still figure out a general distance, but then they don't have the slope adjustment. Which can be a big deal. 20 foot uphill or downhill can play 60 feet longer or shorter. I think it's about 3/1 ratio or 1/3 whichever way you look at it.

Sorry for the drift. I guess you just have to pony up to keep up with the competition.