Why do 800+ rated players play Novice?

[Three Putt]

Well that sucks; Really getting me excited to go play now :|

Something that new players don't understand is Master's divisions. There isn't an intermediate or recreational or novice Master's division, so new older players will start in the non-age protected divisions. IMO that's a huge mistake.

Basically all of the old guys with skill play MPO, so MA40+, MA50+, MA55+, etc., are pretty low-key divisions. Not much sandbagging, not much of the drama that comes with youth. When I was in my late 30's I was playing INT and hating my life. The first event that I played after I turned 40 only had Pro Masters as a division but I though "why not?" and the vibe was 100% improved. Everybody in the Master's division understands we are not the next McBeth (mostly because we are all older than McBeth anyway) and the competition is a lot more chill.

I would strongly encourage you to start in the Master's field.

 

[Agricolae]

... Playing your rating is not sandbagging unless you are taking extra throws on purpose to intentionally lower your rating.

^^^This. I believe it is much harder to sandbag PDGA divisions, and get away with it, than it is to get better and be competitive.

... real novice players like me shouldn't even bother playing- because I'm not beating anyone in any division.

"Real novice players" are any players with a rating of less than 800.

Practice. Get better. If you put in the time, you might be surprised at the steepness of your improvement curve.

 

[Chucker60]

By definition a novice is a new player to the sport; a beginner. Seems like there is not really a spot for these players in tournaments, and that's a shame. The Novice division is mostly players that are well past the definition of 'Novice'.

 

[DavidSauls]

Correct, there is no separate division specifically for novice players.

As mentioned before, the division names are inaccurate, including "Novice". If you think of it as MA4, the lowest skill level for amateurs, it doesn't matter so much.

For myself, I was happy to have begun tournament play with experienced players. They gave me guidance, and I learned more than if I'd been segregated and only competed with other new tournament players.

 

[DavidSauls]

Correct, there is no separate division specifically for novice players.

As mentioned before, the division names are inaccurate, including "Novice". If you think of it as MA4, the lowest skill level for amateurs, it doesn't matter so much.

For myself, I was happy to have begun tournament play with experienced players. They gave me guidance, and I learned more than if I'd been segregated and only competed with other new tournament players.

 

[DavidSauls]

Sorry for the double post. I'm not sure how that happened.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I've played a few now and play MA4 where I can. And will continue to do so as long as my rating allows.

Our area has a core of players that have a decent amount of tourney experience and rate from about 780 to 847 and play MA4 when offered. It is fun to get to know them and have a chance to compete. Part of the tournament experience is getting a chance to compete, so why would I not chose the division that lets me do that?

And 800 rating isn't this unobtainable skill level. So if you aren't there already, build up your game, and enjoy novice yourself.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Something that new players don't understand is Master's divisions. There isn't an intermediate or recreational or novice Master's division, so new older players will start in the non-age protected divisions. IMO that's a huge mistake.

Basically all of the old guys with skill play MPO, so MA40+, MA50+, MA55+, etc., are pretty low-key divisions. Not much sandbagging, not much of the drama that comes with youth. When I was in my late 30's I was playing INT and hating my life. The first event that I played after I turned 40 only had Pro Masters as a division but I though "why not?" and the vibe was 100% improved. Everybody in the Master's division understands we are not the next McBeth (mostly because we are all older than McBeth anyway) and the competition is a lot more chill.

I would strongly encourage you to start in the Master's field.

So I have the choice of MA40 or MA3/4. The latter seems a lot more appropriate for me. 1) MA40 often costs more. 2) It is always a bunch of 900+ rated dudes that have played 20 years.

 

[Chucker60]

So my frustration is not with any particular player that's rated over 800 and has 3 or 4 years experience playing Novice; my real frustration is with the powers that be (the system) for not ensuring there is a place for real beginners - 'novices' - to play & compete against each other and only each other. Probably making to big a deal over this but it's something I've discovered in my brand new journey and something I truly believe. Sorry for the fuss.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I'm just not sure there is any solution. You could move the ratings requirements for the divisions, but that just shuffles who is impacted.

The flipside of your complaint is that people that are solidly MA3 or MA4 level players with ratings from a variety of courses and never win because there always seems to some unrated first tournament guy that throws 450 and talks about their personal best -11 under on a course when E is a good score for a MA4 player.

 

[ray1970]

The problem with your logic is that not every "novice" is going to have the same skills or ability anyways.

There are people who have natural athletic ability and will take to it like a duck to water and even after three or four months of playing they will be very good and there are people who have been playing for many years (not a novice by your definition?) who just aren't that good.

The first tournament for just about anyone is kind of a crap shoot when it comes to picking a division. Playing recreationally, when some of the guys I play with entered their first tournament they signed up for "rec" (MA4?). Turns out they were better than thought and not only easily dominated that division but would have placed high if they were in MA1. Lots of cranky people and grumbling about sandbagging and such but they just honestly thought as recreational players going into their first tournament that they belonged in the lowest division.

Just play a tournament or two and see where you fit in going forward.

 

[txmxer]

I usually hover around DFL.

Life goes on. It's just a game. One that I enjoy and want to play better, but I'm not backing down because my tournament play has been less than stellar.

 

[DavidSauls]

One drawback of a potential beginner's division, as ray1970 pointed out, is the wide range of skills in tournament first-timers.

Another is just how few players there might be in that division, depending on how much experience counts as "novice". Because even if you have a handful of new players at an event, some will inevitably choose to play in other divisions (higher rated, or older). So it would be hard to offer a truly novice/beginner division, in most places.

 

[Three Putt]

So I have the choice of MA40 or MA3/4. The latter seems a lot more appropriate for me. 1) MA40 often costs more. 2) It is always a bunch of 900+ rated dudes that have played 20 years.

That completely depends on your motivation. If your motivation is "where do I have the best chance to win?" then for sure go with the division with the lowest ratings threshold. If your motivation to be in a tournament is to plug into the scene, meet people, throw some rounds and maybe learn some things on the fly without a lot of expectation that you are going to win anything, Masters from my experience is a better place for that.

It's like anything; one size fits all is a lie and doesn't really fit everyone. Anybody giving a blanket answer and going "this covers EVERYBODY" is wrong. You have to understand you and what you want first.

 

[autocrosscrx]

That completely depends on your motivation. If your motivation is "where do I have the best chance to win?" then for sure go with the division with the lowest ratings threshold. If your motivation to be in a tournament is to plug into the scene, meet people, throw some rounds and maybe learn some things on the fly without a lot of expectation that you are going to win anything, Masters from my experience is a better place for that.

It's like anything; one size fits all is a lie and doesn't really fit everyone. Anybody giving a blanket answer and going "this covers EVERYBODY" is wrong. You have to understand you and what you want first.

This obviously varies by area, but I'd say at least half the guys I've played with in 3/4 are MA40 eligible. And we always talk about how we thought that would be a good option, but we don't really want to play the most grueling layout and get thumped by 960+ rated dudes from 2 states over, while talking about knee braces and 401k's and mowing the grass all day.

 

[txmxer]

MA40 seems like a tough division but MA50 has been great the couple of events I've played.

 

[mojorooks]

So my frustration is not with any particular player that's rated over 800 and has 3 or 4 years experience playing Novice; my real frustration is with the powers that be (the system) for not ensuring there is a place for real beginners - 'novices' - to play & compete against each other and only each other. Probably making to big a deal over this but it's something I've discovered in my brand new journey and something I truly believe. Sorry for the fuss.

My first year in league I finished dead last. This is my 3rd year and I'm still normally last on my card. I'm now ahead of a couple people in the standings. I just played my first ever tourney this past mid-april. After that 1st round I am now 797 rated. That rating seems high to me as I shot a +14 (it IS a hard course, the course designer himself shot -3).

I work 50+ hours a week, have a wife, 2 teenage kids and a dog. I treat myself to getting out to play league once a week. I try to get out to throw practice rounds here and there but it rarely happens. My improvement is slow at best. I'm up against a bunch of guys that have time to play 3 leagues a week plus other rounds.


Go out to play, be social and have fun. Worrying about other peoples levels will only impede your own progress.

 

[Cgkdisc]

With the influx of new players, an MA5 division for those under 800 rating is needed and could probably get a decent field in various areas. However, TDs already fill higher divisions with waiting lists and those players take fewer throws and are less likely to slow up a course that's much tougher than their current skill level whether 4 somes or 5 somes. So, it would take some foresighted TDs to maybe run events on shorter course layouts with only divisions like MA3 on down.

Even better with no need for MA5, use the ratings-based divisions with Red, Green & Purple labels so they don't have the Rec - Novice - Beginner labels. Since that means men, women, juniors and others might play together, the TD could probably get a waiver for some social engineering groupings, or just use a flex start, so those social groups could each play one or more rounds together and also get ratings.

 

[Chucker60]

MA5 huh, nice thinking. If DG is going to continue to grow they are going to have to figure it out. Good problem to have I guess.

 

[Hampstead]

Play more and complain less is my recommendation.