Why is the epic pdga approved yet the turbo putt and wheel are not.

[scarpfish]

This happens all the time in baseball and softball. Bats get approved, but revoked and added to "banned" lists and they're still out there with the stamp on it.

I doubt it was about "fairness."

Yes, but those bans on certain types of bats generally come about because manufacturers make production changes to their bats after their initial approval and fall out of compliance. Here's the ASA's FAQ on this....

http://www.asasoftball.com/iowa/pdfs/03_Updated_FAQs.pdf

 

[Dan Ensor]

The epic is a disc. The TP is a star. When we start playing star golf, the TP will be approved, and the epic will be disapproved. The wheel has 2 flight plates and 2 rims.

Also, I'm guessing that if you want to get really specific, there are a lot of Innova or DC discs out there that have very slightly off-center rims, so the epic probably isn't technically completely different from all other discs ever produced and approved.

 

[oddjob]

Are plus molds approved separately? Can't get the list to load on phone

 

[mashnut]

Nope, it's still considered the same disc for approval purposes if the name doesn't change.

 

[Dyoel182]

Also, I'm guessing that if you want to get really specific, there are a lot of Innova or DC discs out there that have very slightly off-center rims, so the epic probably isn't technically completely different from all other discs ever produced and approved.

I don't think they would let those leave the factory even with loose quality controls.

 

[Three Putt]

Speculation: The letter from Aerobie's lawyer was scarier than the letter from Quest's lawyer. :|

 

[nexah3]

I think the PDGA made the right move for the wrong reasons.

They were probably pressured from Innova and Discraft because a saw edge type putter would make all existing putters obsolete. I've never thrown one, but I imagine that disc probably catches chains better than anything else in existence past or present.

If that disc would have been kept legal we'd all be using a variation of a saw type putter by now.

 

[Dyoel182]

In my experience it didn't catch the chains any better than my blunt nose putters do.

 

[tarel]

Speculation: The letter from Aerobie's lawyer was scarier than the letter from Quest's lawyer. :|

Ya that is what I was thinking.

 

[Johnson]

The wide part of the rim is too wide to be legal, no idea how it passed...

 

[gvan]

I think the PDGA made the right move for the wrong reasons.

They were probably pressured from Innova and Discraft because a saw edge type putter would make all existing putters obsolete. I've never thrown one, but I imagine that disc probably catches chains better than anything else in existence past or present.

If that disc would have been kept legal we'd all be using a variation of a saw type putter by now.

According to people who were there (according to the thread on the PDGA board), manufacturer pressure had nothing to do with it. And why would it? Innova and Discraft could have put out similar putters and not lost much business.

Even if these did catch better on the right side (which wasn't my experience}, it would catch and spin AWAY on the left side.

 

[garublador]

The wide part of the rim is too wide to be legal, no idea how it passed...

Because there wasn't a rim width maximum when it came out, IIRC.

I'm not sure the Turbo Putt really caught any better than any other putter. I don't think that anyone was really afraid of that specific design, they just didn't want to have to put all this R&D into gimmick discs just to keep up with the Joneses or have the sport they love start relying on gimmicks rather than a set of clearly defined design rules.

 

[Discette]

Discs are sent to the PDGA for measuring and approval. This has been done by the same person, Jeff Homburg since the late 90's. FYI, Jeff was just inducted into the PDGA Hall of Fame in 2012.


At one time, Jeff worked pretty much solo. He measured the discs and if he thought they met the standards, he would approved the discs. He was a volunteer making these decisions on behalf of the PDGA. After measuring, he would notify PDGA and the manufacturer that the disc was PDGA approved. When he approved the Turbo putter, some PDGA members and committee volunteers questioned how the disc could be legal. It was sent to the Technical Standards committee for review. But the disc was already "officially" approved by Jeff and therefore the PDGA.

Long story short, now a disc is only "tentatively" PDGA approved by Jeff until the PDGA tech standards committee and BOD have had the opportunity review the information and grant "official" PDGA approval.

The PDGA has also re-written the disc approval standards to better clarify the standards for both discs and targets.


If you didn't visit this thread, please do so before posting further conspiracy theories.

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=25721&page=4

A Prerube of PDGA should bring up at least 10 more threads from that time period.

 

[Three Putt]

Conspiracies will always pop back up. That the OP was based on something other than the timeline of events was shown by inclusion of the Wheel, which was never approved.

The actual question was/is: If the technical specs were amended to make both the Epic and Turbo Putt illegal, why was the Epic grandfathered while the Turbo Putt lost its approval.

The answer is that the PDGA decided that despite the initial approval, the Turbo Putt didn't meet even the loose definition that existed before the technical specs were tightened. They basically admitted that they screwed up and did something to fix it. The Epic DID meet the technical specs before they were tightened, so there was no screw up to fix.

Some people like the conspiracy answer better.

It seems funny to look back on, but I was pretty vocal back in the day in support of a 10% rule where the rim could only be 10% of the diameter. I got on board with that as soon as I saw the Gateway Edge/Speed Demon prototype. I wasn't the only one. There were a lot of us that looked at where the disc design was going and thought "this is out of control." A lot of us wanted the tech spec revision. I'm kinda happy with how it played out, although the rims are bigger than I would like.

Other people look at that early Quest period and think "look how interesting these discs are. The stupid PDGA took away the ability for the manufacturers to really be creative." They kinda overlook the fact that the Turbo Putt and Wheel are useless discs. If you like useless discs, the 10M Brick is still legal.

 

[Scoot_er]

Conspiracies will always pop back up. That the OP was based on something other than the timeline of events was shown by inclusion of the Wheel, which was never approved.

The actual question was/is: If the technical specs were amended to make both the Epic and Turbo Putt illegal, why was the Epic grandfathered while the Turbo Putt lost its approval.

The answer is that the PDGA decided that despite the initial approval, the Turbo Putt didn't meet even the loose definition that existed before the technical specs were tightened. They basically admitted that they screwed up and did something to fix it. The Epic DID meet the technical specs before they were tightened, so there was no screw up to fix.

Some people like the conspiracy answer better.

It seems funny to look back on, but I was pretty vocal back in the day in support of a 10% rule where the rim could only be 10% of the diameter. I got on board with that as soon as I saw the Gateway Edge/Speed Demon prototype. I wasn't the only one. There were a lot of us that looked at where the disc design was going and thought "this is out of control." A lot of us wanted the tech spec revision. I'm kinda happy with how it played out, although the rims are bigger than I would like.

Other people look at that early Quest period and think "look how interesting these discs are. The stupid PDGA took away the ability for the manufacturers to really be creative." They kinda overlook the fact that the Turbo Putt and Wheel are useless discs. If you like useless discs, the 10M Brick is still legal.

Don't cut your hand holding that disc Johhny Boy!.........The edges in Dave's basement were out of control.

 

[Sean40474]

That was an April Fool's joke a couple of year's ago...It was like a hybrid aviar, roc, teebird and wraith. 1/4 of the each disc molded together.

lol, I can't even imagine what that'd fly like. I think they should make it for the helluva it.

 

[jtreadwell]

lol, I can't even imagine what that'd fly like. I think they should make it for the helluva it.

Picture a zebra. Now break it's legs and wrap it in duct tape. Now tie several party balloons to it. Now throw it off of Niagara Falls. Kinda like that:|.