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Wysoki vs. McBeth

McFer said:
I'm just talking about what I see with fellow disc golfers...and I see disc golfers who HAVE to let a little gas out or they'll eat themselves from the inside out. And if the studies you're citing suggest that *many* people are opened up to more anger after acting out, that doesn't fit what I'm talking about - that not everyone is the same and some folks can kick their bag and then move on.
Click to expand...

Yes, in many ways we are different. In many other ways, however, we are also the same, such as needing oxygen to breathe, food to digest, water to drink, generally being born with arms/legs/10 fingers/10 toes, etc. I agree that some people can kick their bag and move on. What I'm suggesting, on behalf of my psych class, is the same guy who kicks his bag and moves on might find it easier to move on if he hadn't kicked the bag to begin with.
 
Yea, we got that the first time you said it. McFer is of the belief that some disc golfers "have to let a little gas out or they'll eat themselves from the inside out." I find it an interesting debate, but you stating the same thing again along with telling us you're in psych class is unlikely to change anyone's opinion. Oh, and you must have a minor in Biology, dropping knowledge bombs like that on us.
 
DirtyMeathook said:
Yea, we got that the first time you said it. McFer is of the belief that some disc golfers "have to let a little gas out or they'll eat themselves from the inside out." I find it an interesting debate, but you stating the same thing again along with telling us you're in psych class is unlikely to change anyone's opinion. Oh, and you must have a minor in Biology, dropping knowledge bombs like that on us.
Click to expand...

I don't think you do find the debate interesting. If you did, you would probably focus on the argument more than me. There might have even been a google search to see if catharsis studies exist and if they support what I'm referencing. You may have found articles like this:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/200909/anger-and-catharsis-myth-metaphor-or-reality

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/200909/you-cant-punch-your-way-out-anger

Nevertheless, if we're not going to talk about the argument, if the focus is still going to be on me, then I need to help you better understand what I am and what I can do for you. If you'll bare with these next few paragraphs, I may even succeed in articulating just that.

I'm under the assumption that most people don't want to be foolish, that we rather be told not to pee into the wind rather than learning why that's solid advice the hard way, and most also don't have time, energy, or desire to double check all of the assumptions and beliefs we've formed so far in our lives. Considering your reaction to a simple to reference to my experience in a community college class, I'd be willing to bet money you're someone who has little time, energy, or desire to do double check your own assumptions and beliefs. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you've actually clicked those articles and gobbled them up to satisfy some genuine curiosity and true interest in determining the value of catharsis and how it may apply to your life. But if I'm right and you're like the majority of people, then that puts you in an interesting position.

On one hand, checking out psychology-related books from the library and browsing articles online is not realistic. Enrolling in psych classes probably seems even more ridiculous, particularly with the cost. Nonetheless, there's a whole field of people working to better understand what people need to live more happily, successfully, etc. You may save yourself the headache from a whole lot of reading but you miss out on a metric ton of information - some of which is potentially life changing.

Fortunately, there are alternatives. There are people like me who are happy to bring up what we've learned to help ourselves remember what we've learned, to experiment with ways of presenting what we've learned to help other people be free of any maladaptive assumptions (false assumptions that cause us problems), and most importantly, to give people who don't have the same investigative inclinations a chance to learn parts of what those of us who do have learned.

What you have here is an opportunity. This opportunity has educational prospects, such as through asking me to paraphrase studies and their results for you, like the studies on catharsis, and it also has prospects for continuing with what you've done so far in using what I'm showing you to insult me, use sarcasm, etc. Either way, I'll be pleased. If you do insult me, ignore me, say "too long, didn't read", and the like, I'll have fun pondering away about what compels you to think and respond this way. I'll ponder about what aspects of this are within my control for helping you make better use of someone like me and maybe I'll even learn something! Better yet, you could be the one who learns something.
 
rennic said:
I don't think you do find the debate interesting. If you did, you would probably focus on the argument more than me. There might have even been a google search to see if catharsis studies exist and if they support what I'm referencing. You may have found articles like this:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/200909/anger-and-catharsis-myth-metaphor-or-reality

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/200909/you-cant-punch-your-way-out-anger

Nevertheless, if we're not going to talk about the argument, if the focus is still going to be on me, then I need to help you better understand what I am and what I can do for you. If you'll bare with these next few paragraphs, I may even succeed in articulating just that.

I'm under the assumption that most people don't want to be foolish, that we rather be told not to pee into the wind rather than learning why that's solid advice the hard way, and most also don't have time, energy, or desire to double check all of the assumptions and beliefs we've formed so far in our lives. Considering your reaction to a simple to reference to my experience in a community college class, I'd be willing to bet money you're someone who has little time, energy, or desire to do double check your own assumptions and beliefs. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you've actually clicked those articles and gobbled them up to satisfy some genuine curiosity and true interest in determining the value of catharsis and how it may apply to your life. But if I'm right and you're like the majority of people, then that puts you in an interesting position.

On one hand, checking out psychology-related books from the library and browsing articles online is not realistic. Enrolling in psych classes probably seems even more ridiculous, particularly with the cost. Nonetheless, there's a whole field of people working to better understand what people need to live more happily, successfully, etc. You may save yourself the headache from a whole lot of reading but you miss out on a metric ton of information - some of which is potentially life changing.

Fortunately, there are alternatives. There are people like me who are happy to bring up what we've learned to help ourselves remember what we've learned, to experiment with ways of presenting what we've learned to help other people be free of any maladaptive assumptions (false assumptions that cause us problems), and most importantly, to give people who don't have the same investigative inclinations a chance to learn parts of what those of us who do have learned.

What you have here is an opportunity. This opportunity has educational prospects, such as through asking me to paraphrase studies and their results for you, like the studies on catharsis, and it also has prospects for continuing with what you've done so far in using what I'm showing you to insult me, use sarcasm, etc. Either way, I'll be pleased. If you do insult me, ignore me, say "too long, didn't read", and the like, I'll have fun pondering away about what compels you to think and respond this way. I'll ponder about what aspects of this are within my control for helping you make better use of someone like me and maybe I'll even learn something! Better yet, you could be the one who learns something.
Click to expand...

Oh the irony of someone speaking of taking psych classes and then using a .com site as their resource :doh:
 
Vonbeezy1 said:
Oh the irony of someone speaking of taking psych classes and then using a .com site as their resource :doh:
Click to expand...

If I was presenting a conclusion as fact, you'd have me hook, line, and sinker. Instead, I've been extremely tentative, like with saying "I don't think this is true" rather than "That's false". Please, keep firing away!
 
That study tho:

Brad Bushman, Roy Baumeister, and Angela Stack looked at this issue in a 1999 paper in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. They manipulated people's anger in a laboratory experiment. Participants wrote an essay on a sensitive topic and then told people that their essay would be evaluated by a peer. In actuality, the feedback they were given was assigned by the experimenter. In the high anger condition, people were told that their essay was poor and was "one of the worst they had ever read." This feedback is known to make people upset.

Soon afterward, some people were given the opportunity to punch a punching bag for 2 minutes. Others did nothing at all. Then, a short time later, everyone played a game against a (fictional) opponent. Over the course of the game, participants had a chance to punish their opponent with blasts of noise. The loudness of the noise and the length of the noise have been used as measures of aggression.

The belief in catharsis would predict that people would be less aggressive if they had a chance to punch a punching bag after getting angry than if they had to sit and do nothing after getting angry. Instead, the opposite result was obtained. The people who punched the punching bag were actually more aggressive than the people who did nothing.
Click to expand...

That's some freaky-deaky sciency stuff right there, but it's so totally disconnected from any kind of real world application that it's useless. Punching something because some said their essay was bad? Blowing a horn at a fictional opponent? Wow.
 
McFer said:
That study tho:



That's some freaky-deaky sciency stuff right there, but it's so totally disconnected from any kind of real world application that it's useless. Punching something because some said their essay was bad? Blowing a horn at a fictional opponent? Wow.
Click to expand...

It can be disconnected, absolutely. I only glanced through the one you're referencing, but from what I saw, I think what they were going for was measuring the unconscious effects of catharsis. They would do this presumably because it's more objective to measure slight variations in the amount of force behind a punch and harder for test participants to manipulate than the alternatives, like relying on the feedback of participants.
 
McFer said:
That study tho:



That's some freaky-deaky sciency stuff right there, but it's so totally disconnected from any kind of real world application that it's useless. Punching something because some said their essay was bad? Blowing a horn at a fictional opponent? Wow.
Click to expand...

Think about it this way... You get cut off by someone on the road, they're texting on their phone to boot. You pump your brakes as their car is now only a couple feet in front of you, you slam on your horn when in reality the horn doesn't serve a purpose here other than to release some anger and let them know your displeasure in their driving. So in another alternative you decide to accept that you have been cut off and you refrain from your horn as you know that there are always going to be people on the road who need to be on their phone and you realize blowing your horn will not change their driving behaviors but it will bring you more pent up anger as a result.

Of course everyone is different and there are countless variables in any situation, that's just my way of viewing it.
 
McFer said:
That study tho:



That's some freaky-deaky sciency stuff right there, but it's so totally disconnected from any kind of real world application that it's useless. Punching something because some said their essay was bad? Blowing a horn at a fictional opponent? Wow.
Click to expand...

I've seen fans punch holes in walls because their team lost. Why is being upset when someone's own work is judged incredibly harshly that hard to believe?
 
rennic said:
I don't think you do find the debate interesting. If you did, you would probably focus on the argument more than me. There might have even been a google search to see if catharsis studies exist and if they support what I'm referencing. You may have found articles like this:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/200909/anger-and-catharsis-myth-metaphor-or-reality

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/200909/you-cant-punch-your-way-out-anger

Nevertheless, if we're not going to talk about the argument, if the focus is still going to be on me, then I need to help you better understand what I am and what I can do for you. If you'll bare with these next few paragraphs, I may even succeed in articulating just that.

I'm under the assumption that most people don't want to be foolish, that we rather be told not to pee into the wind rather than learning why that's solid advice the hard way, and most also don't have time, energy, or desire to double check all of the assumptions and beliefs we've formed so far in our lives. Considering your reaction to a simple to reference to my experience in a community college class, I'd be willing to bet money you're someone who has little time, energy, or desire to do double check your own assumptions and beliefs. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you've actually clicked those articles and gobbled them up to satisfy some genuine curiosity and true interest in determining the value of catharsis and how it may apply to your life. But if I'm right and you're like the majority of people, then that puts you in an interesting position.

On one hand, checking out psychology-related books from the library and browsing articles online is not realistic. Enrolling in psych classes probably seems even more ridiculous, particularly with the cost. Nonetheless, there's a whole field of people working to better understand what people need to live more happily, successfully, etc. You may save yourself the headache from a whole lot of reading but you miss out on a metric ton of information - some of which is potentially life changing.

Fortunately, there are alternatives. There are people like me who are happy to bring up what we've learned to help ourselves remember what we've learned, to experiment with ways of presenting what we've learned to help other people be free of any maladaptive assumptions (false assumptions that cause us problems), and most importantly, to give people who don't have the same investigative inclinations a chance to learn parts of what those of us who do have learned.

What you have here is an opportunity. This opportunity has educational prospects, such as through asking me to paraphrase studies and their results for you, like the studies on catharsis, and it also has prospects for continuing with what you've done so far in using what I'm showing you to insult me, use sarcasm, etc. Either way, I'll be pleased. If you do insult me, ignore me, say "too long, didn't read", and the like, I'll have fun pondering away about what compels you to think and respond this way. I'll ponder about what aspects of this are within my control for helping you make better use of someone like me and maybe I'll even learn something! Better yet, you could be the one who learns something.
Click to expand...

I'd just write this off as a failed experiment, then. When you say someone like you, you mean a kid who took a psych class and began lecturing on the interwebs citing random .com's? Newsflash, peanut, nobody is learning anything from your pseudo intellectualism.
 
This is discussion about McBeth's recent vocal performances possibly having an impact on his finishes and external evidence to prove each point. Still on topic...
 
Brad Bushman, Roy Baumeister, and Angela Stack looked at this issue in a 1999 paper in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. They manipulated people's anger in a laboratory experiment. Participants wrote an essay on a sensitive topic and then told people that their essay would be evaluated by a peer. In actuality, the feedback they were given was assigned by the experimenter. In the high anger condition, people were told that their essay was poor and was "one of the worst they had ever read." This feedback is known to make people upset.

Soon afterward, some people were given the opportunity to punch a punching bag for 2 minutes. Others did nothing at all. Then, a short time later, everyone played a game against a (fictional) opponent. Over the course of the game, participants had a chance to punish their opponent with blasts of noise. The loudness of the noise and the length of the noise have been used as measures of aggression.

The belief in catharsis would predict that people would be less aggressive if they had a chance to punch a punching bag after getting angry than if they had to sit and do nothing after getting angry. Instead, the opposite result was obtained. The people who punched the punching bag were actually more aggressive than the people who did nothing.
Click to expand...

This study is based on other-directed anger, not self-directed anger. The foregoing discussion regarding McBeth & other pro disc golfers expressing anger is anger generated by their own (self-evaluated poor) performance,
 
Rennic, your post count does not lend credence to your otherwise well thought out and researched hypothesis. I'd suggest quit playing disc golf, your job, and this "thinking" thing you seem to be doing. Concentrate your efforts on this forum. Post opinions and hearsay, illogical geometry and physics notions, and insult as many other outside of your mind ideas as possible. With a regimen like this you may one day become a respected poster.:|
 
DirtyMeathook said:
I'd just write this off as a failed experiment, then. When you say someone like you, you mean a kid who took a psych class and began lecturing on the interwebs citing random .com's? Newsflash, peanut, nobody is learning anything from your pseudo intellectualism.
Click to expand...

Why? Whether it's through providing posters an opportunity to come up with witty insults and other remarks, like with you and F.Luke, or through trying to better to get to the truth of the matter, like with teemkey pointing out the limitations of a study provided or vonbeezy alluding to the limitations of commercial websites as credible sources, the conversation is still going, still changing, etc. At the very least, I'm learning about what annoys strangers over the internet and pseudo intellectualism or not, you're mistaken with that generalization.

For more specific proof of why this conversation can be interesting, look at teemkey's response. teemkey highlighted how catharsis can be both self-directed and other-directed with his reply about how the other-directed study doesn't apply to Paul McBeth's outbursts because his outbursts are mostly self-directed. Basically, self-directed catharsis can be therapeutic and other-directed catharsis disposes people for more anger. This, in my opinion, brings up an interesting twist on catharsis because some players do commonly blame other people for errant throws, like Patrick Brown. The studies would then seem to suggest one part of the skill gap between McBeth and Brown is how they direct their anger after bad throws. That's not interesting or even educational for you?
 
Last edited:
F.Luke said:
Rennic, your post count does not lend credence to your otherwise well thought out and researched hypothesis. I'd suggest quit playing disc golf, your job, and this "thinking" thing you seem to be doing. Concentrate your efforts on this forum. Post opinions and hearsay, illogical geometry and physics notions, and insult as many other outside of your mind ideas as possible. With a regimen like this you may one day become a respected poster.:|
Click to expand...

Ain't nobody got time for that.
 
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