zj1002 gets all literary

[zj1002]

What is the impact of shortcutting the arc? Does it limit distance potential?

That's the stuff I can't prove. I honestly don't know. I think some say you need the wider arc in the power zone for more potential power. I never got into the actual physics of it. I just picked up things that worked for me and then tried to explain them simply to other people. Its much harder to hold on to a wider arc at high speeds and time it right. I'm sure someone like JHern or JR did the #s on this on DGR.

 

[riltim]

So is this a more advanced technique or is it intended to help any skill level out. For example if I max out at ~315' with my rivals is this something I should/could work on to gain more distance or are there some other basics I should be working on first?

 

[sidewinder22]

So is this a more advanced technique or is it intended to help any skill level out. For example if I max out at ~315' with my rivals is this something I should/could work on to gain more distance or are there some other basics I should be working on first?

I'd say it's more advanced distance technique. Most players struggle just to keep the disc on a level plane.

 

[riltim]

Id like to think i can keep a disc on a level plane, I can get comets out to ~280' but I have trouble generating power and throwing nose down. I throw my fairways 10' off the ground; if I try to put some power into it and throw higher I usually end up nose up and stalling out.a

Comet is 175g 3rd run ESP, not Z.

 

[zj1002]

It's not that advanced. I was using this when my angles were all funky. the most advanced skill to learn is mental, the rest of it can all be learned with proper repetion. No reason to not try it. It may not click now, but understand the main goals of it so that you can apply it to your throw as you develop it.

 

[sidewinder22]

No reason to not try it. It may not click now, but understand the main goals of it so that you can apply it to your throw as you develop it.

I agree with that.

 

[riltim]

Thanks guys. I know some stuff can be more harmful than good if you're not ready for it. I'll definitely give this a shot.

 

[Puckstopper]

Damn winter!

^^^ This x one hundred million! I've only managed two partial rounds since November, and I'm going nuts. The good news is that I was still "booming it" out over 350' on my good drives (don't laugh, I'm old and out of shape. 350 is damn good! ) The bad news is that this is the third good article I've read this winter and I'm going to spend this whole spring tweaking my form. Oh well, maybe the breakthrough to get me to 400' is contained in one of the tweaks I'm going to try. More likely this will be like my real golf game, and I'll end up spending half the season getting back to where I left off last fall. :thmbdown: Either way, thanks for the time you guys spend writing these articles.

 

[Mocheez]

That's the stuff I can't prove. I honestly don't know. I think some say you need the wider arc in the power zone for more potential power. I never got into the actual physics of it. I just picked up things that worked for me and then tried to explain them simply to other people. Its much harder to hold on to a wider arc at high speeds and time it right. I'm sure someone like JHern or JR did the #s on this on DGR.

Blake emphasized the importance of thumb push which helps to hang on through the arc...

Soup: depeinging upon your form and hand size you may or may not be doing this. Many large handed throwers talk a lot about tumb pinch or thumb push. Basically, as you pass the critical point you want to hold your thumb down and push your thumb forward (this does not mean to point e thumb lower). The end result is a small rotation of the forearm that helps you hold on more easily and is equivalent to the "wrist breaking" portions of a golf or baseball swing.

To understand this: fill a water bottle about 35-40% full. Hold the bottle like you're reaching back with it and the bottom of the bottle is the bottom of the handle. (you will need to tilt it upwards slightly). Thr water should be settled at the bottom of the bottle. Slowly trace the rail. The water should stay in the bottom of the bottle.

As you approach critical point start increasing speed. As you enter hit territory the water should abruptly shift (all of the water at once) to the top of the bottle.

If the water splashes out of control, you moved your arm faster than the bottle's center of gravity moved.

What you are going for is a very abrupt "crash" where all the water shifts to the front of the bottle with no rebound splash. To achieve this with a good pace you'll find you have to rotate your forearm a little as it enters half-hit territory. As you work on that, pay attention to your thumb and you will see what i was talking about.

 

[sidewinder22]

Blake emphasized the importance of thumb push which helps to hang on through the arc...

I just posted some of that yesterday, it's not exclusive to the anhyzer tilt:

Some nuggets:

I can say that being able to keep the disc's weight under control is an absolute necessity and so the hammer drills still apply. The difference with this tech is that there's no forcing of the wrist extension.

by that point the disc direction and the motion of the hand are basically working together like a sling (a good snap is almost frictionless on launch). this is sort of why the wrist opens... the inertia of the disc forces the wrist open.

The thing i have come to learn is that it is not the pivot as much as it is the raw "edge weight" (aka the weight of the hammer's head) that is really being forcibly manipulated here. This explains why it is still possible to snap without extending the wrist as long as the relative positions of the forearm line up with the body positions and timing.

Hold the bottle near the middle or bottom with the neck angled upwards (~45 degrees). pull the bottle's along the rail with the bottom of the bottle being the front as it moves along the rail. as it passes the critical point, rotate your forearm and flatten the bottle out slightly so that the water abruptly shifts to the front.

Many large handed throwers talk a lot about tumb pinch or thumb push. Basically, as you pass the critical point you want to hold your thumb down and push your thumb forward (this does not mean to point e thumb lower). The end result is a small rotation of the forearm that helps you hold on more easily and is equivalent to the "wrist breaking" portions of a golf or baseball swing.

Think of wrist extension like the break of the wrists when swinging a baseball bat. Your focus isn't really on breaking your wrists, it's getting the bat through. A strong and well-timed break of the wrists will give you more bat speed and hitting power, but if you try to exaggerate the wrist break without proper timing it will be weaker. Wrist extension is a bi-product of good positions, timing, and angles. Forcing wrist extension outside of those things will not yield a significant gain.

 

[JedV]

zj, you rock. Nice blog post.

And here I thought "zj" was a reference to the movie Beerfest. Innocent enough, they are your actual initials

-What's a ZJ?
-If you don't know what a ZJ is, you can't afford one.

 

[zj1002]

zj, you rock. Nice blog post.

And here I thought "zj" was a reference to the movie Beerfest. Innocent enough, they are your actual initials

Yeah its my initials. But I do love watching Beerfest. Plenty of drinking games played watching that movie hundreds of times.

 

[Uncle Dougie]

Tried working this into my throw earlier this week. Really emphasizing on keeping the disc inward until having to push through the hit. A few things:

1. I noticed a more effortless release.
2. Discs seamed to glide longer during second portion of flight (after apex)
3. Though I didn't gain much more distance, maybe 20 or so, I could definitely tell the that the discs
were staying in the air longer when thrown using this style.
4. MY ASS ON THE RIGHT SIDE IS SORE!! Also down the leg a bit. I think it's from practicing this new type of throw and keeping myself planted through the hit instead of rounding like I normally do.

Great job on the article Zj!!!!!

 

[wreckreation]

Tried this for the hell of it in a field over the weekend. Had a hard time controlling the release angle at first so I dropped the run up. I normally struggle to reach 300 and have never hit it from a stand still. But I must have thrown at least a dozen standstill shots to or slightly past 300 while trying this. I did have two or three monster grip locks that were a bit weird (strong rip off my middle finger, which I've never felt before), but I am definitely going to be messing with it some more

 

[zj1002]

Glad to hear its helping some! I definitely agree you should probably try this in a standstill. I've been known to practice my form while talking to people. The more reps - if its at home, work, etc - the better it gets. Its something you can practice with out letting go of the disc, by just working on timing the push forward with the weight shift.

 

[wreckreation]

Glad to hear its helping some! I definitely agree you should probably try this in a standstill. I've been known to practice my form while talking to people. The more reps - if its at home, work, etc - the better it gets. Its something you can practice with out letting go of the disc, by just working on timing the push forward with the weight shift.

No, no, no more of that. Tried to show my wife something two weeks ago in the living room and she grip locked a Cobra right through the window :doh:

 

[zj1002]

Just don't go too fast with it lol....

 

[Magicweed]

Grabbed a driver and ran through this slowly (not wanting to bust out a window) and I noticed a few things:

1) My reach went further back. I feel like the focus on keeping the disc flat through the reach back meant forcing my arm into a certain alignment, which limited how far back it could go. By dropping the inside part of the disc the extension felt smoother, more natural and farther back.

2) From my elbow to the disc everything felt less tense. 1) is probably a byproduct of this and I can immediately see how it would be a benefit.

3) I found my motion pulling through the core more about 3-5" below where my typical pull through is. It felt a bit more fluid.

I'm interested to see how this is going to impact my throws and the flight of my discs when I try it in a field.

 

[Mocheez]

I have been throwing this way for awhile (but never realized it). It seems to have led to to other issues. The technique works if you roll your wrist/forearm to get the disc into the proper release angle. It doesn't work if you roll your upper arm to get the disc into the proper release angle. Unfortunately, I was doing the latter which leads to alligator arm, decreased power, nose up, and a lot of other bad stuff. I need to lead with my tricep through release (bicep should never point to the sky).

 

[Toro71]

Been playing around with the tilt down idea. I like it, works like crazy with the nose down question, and I swear it feels more 'natural' through the hit for me. It will take me some more time to adjust to the release (seems like it's lower overall for me) but thanks for this.