The funniest thing about this thread is people used to BEG for 3rd runs because they were beefier. Thats all anyone ever said about the PD. DM tried to listen to the people that BEGGED for a 3rd run replacement by ensuring the PD came out more OS and now people talk about the patent run or shield stamp run. For a while you could buy shield stamps (the straightest run of PD ever) for $15 while 3rd runs went for $35+. Moral of the story no matter how it comes out people are going to complain. If its OS they want the less stable version. If its less stable they want the more stable version :doh: :doh: :doh:
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[Discmania] Power Driver Freak PEEDEE Thread
- Thread starter discspeed
- Start date
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
You can add P-Lines to that list. No one wanted them until they disappeared.
I'd hate to be a manufacturer. It really seems like you can't please anybody.
I'd hate to be a manufacturer. It really seems like you can't please anybody.
I find it humorous at this point. Its like the blind leading the blind.
I threw/throw both P-Lines and the under stable S-Lines. I bought 10 of the p-lines cause I heard they were going OOP. I assumed the S-Lines would stay consistent, never have I been so wrong.
I picked up PD's relatively late. Others picked them up earlier (1st, 2nd, 3d run). The flights are so different and so many people throw them that the if DM isn't make that type of PD, there is always going to be someone who isn't pleased with the flight and want "the other" PD. Those people who aren't pleased with the current run are often vocal about it.
The issue isn't people, it's consistency (or inconsistency) within the mold.
I picked up PD's relatively late. Others picked them up earlier (1st, 2nd, 3d run). The flights are so different and so many people throw them that the if DM isn't make that type of PD, there is always going to be someone who isn't pleased with the flight and want "the other" PD. Those people who aren't pleased with the current run are often vocal about it.
The issue isn't people, it's consistency (or inconsistency) within the mold.
The mold is now coming out OS which is what people asked for for years. That's not a consistency issue that's a group of people asking for something then being upset with the outcome. My guess is most guys that find the PD too OS would have better luck with a RR FD2 since they could actually get it up to speed.
If PD's (or any other mold) were consistent there wouldn't be a divide in the people who use them.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
And yet it's never the 1000+ rated players (the ones who actually throw far and consistently enough to actually gauge consistency) that are complaining.
Precisely! Its the guys that have little to no business throwing them in the first place. The average player has little to no use for a PD until it is beat senseless which isn't the purpose of the mold. I carry 2 PD and they are by far the least thrown disc in my bag. I reach for my FD2 and FD3 about 5x as often because they aren't tweener molds.
I'm not complaining,
I'm stating that if the mold were consistent then people wouldn't expect them to be more or less stable.
Putt for D'oh
Double Eagle Member
Unless it is the same people complaining about each version I think it is safe to say people are being pleased, they are quietly happy. You can't please everyone which is always more true.
If DM decided to ensure they are producing beefier PDs then I would assume they sell better.
Simon and Eagle both have First Run C-Line PDs in their bag and probably know where to find more if they need them. Not much to complain about.
I personally like the variation from run to run. Variety is a good thing and is part of what makes the Pd a great driver. I do miss the P-lines though.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Complaint
Complaint
Can you tell me what inconsistencies you're seeing in the mold and at what distances? I've bagged the mold for over a decade at this point, and I'm really interested in this. I'm also interested in these "understable" S-Lines. You must be throwing non-ID 450'+ or torquing the living daylights out of them.
I bag 3 PDs, all of them pre-embossed and I have plenty of backups ranging in stability from slightly US to mega beef. The first embossed run was ridiculously OS and a failed run, no matter what the Discmaniac fanboys have to say. The Lone Howl I have is not excessively OS, I just like the pre-embossed better.
I'm committed to the mold, used bins will probably keep me supplied for a long time. Dude that runs a shop I frequent didn't order any of the new freak stamps. He says he's tired of the puke colors on all the swirlys.
Discmania can do better, unless their move to DD pissed Innova off enough to put them at the end of the queue for all the people they run discs for.
I'm committed to the mold, used bins will probably keep me supplied for a long time. Dude that runs a shop I frequent didn't order any of the new freak stamps. He says he's tired of the puke colors on all the swirlys.
Discmania can do better, unless their move to DD pissed Innova off enough to put them at the end of the queue for all the people they run discs for.
Lurp Nuts
* Ace Member *
No need to get defensive, everybody knows that there is variation from run to run. The mold is over 10 years old, there is bound to be a few wild swings in stability. The original shield stamp S-Lines were well-documented to have high speed turn.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Not getting defensive. Those are legitimate questions. The only runs I've seen documented as having high speed turn are the 4th run C-Lines. Shield stamps flew more like 7-8/10 FRs out of the box. At least that's from my personal experience throwing several of both runs of them. I'm sure the turn came in once you break 400', but I don't buy a lot of people claiming they were breaking such a distance back then. They were a great way to replace a season FR that took months to get there.
dehaas
* Ace Member *
The "fluke flippy" s lines are shaped like 4th run c lines but feel like really cheap and soft star plastic. To me they felt like pro with just a hair of star blended in.
I've not seen any stock from that run new in a while though, at this point I'd guess it's 6-7 years old?
My honest take is most pd's are 90% overlap. Yeah you might get some slight variation, but for the most part they all do the same thing. I think a lot of it depends on what you're using them for too.
And to be fair discs tend to cycle from beefy to not so beefy. 11x firebirds were beefy, then the 12xs weren't so much, then came the FAF runs, then those went away. Same with teebirds, early 11xs were beef, then cane the opaque 11x and 12x that everybody hated, now people complain about how beefy fresh teebirds are. Destroyers do the same thing...
I get people wanting consistency but if you have access to plastic to fondle it's pretty easy to find exactly what you're looking for.
I've not seen any stock from that run new in a while though, at this point I'd guess it's 6-7 years old?
My honest take is most pd's are 90% overlap. Yeah you might get some slight variation, but for the most part they all do the same thing. I think a lot of it depends on what you're using them for too.
And to be fair discs tend to cycle from beefy to not so beefy. 11x firebirds were beefy, then the 12xs weren't so much, then came the FAF runs, then those went away. Same with teebirds, early 11xs were beef, then cane the opaque 11x and 12x that everybody hated, now people complain about how beefy fresh teebirds are. Destroyers do the same thing...
I get people wanting consistency but if you have access to plastic to fondle it's pretty easy to find exactly what you're looking for.
I feel like you're getting a bit salty and I'm not trying to be combative.
Those aren't complaints that's just how it is. If the mold was consistent there wouldn't be discussion about the flight differences between the runs. I think this is backed up by the fact that Simon/Eagle throw 2nd (1st?) run PD's because they like that variation of PD. I think Eagle has held on to one PD for 2 or three bags now because he likes that specific run/disc so much.
I'm not speaking for the majority or minority of players because I can't. I'm not Simon or Eagle or 1000 rated. I don't throw 500 ft. I use them for distances between 350 and 380 feet with pretty good form. I can't throw the newer runs that far because they're too over stable for my arm speed.
The 3 P-Line and 4 S-Line PD's I have are from 2017.
I bought 10 more P-Line PD's in February of this year and they're a little more stable but still have some turn.
I bought the newer run S-lines a couple months ago (August maybe) and they're super over stable.
dehaas
* Ace Member *
Protip: use a fresh pd as your tomahawk disc and thank me later.
ILUVSMGS18
Just Another Disc Hoarder
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
- Messages
- 2,492
Yeah their really good for it. Not just to beat them in either, they are very versatile OH discs. If only they came in 150 class still.
dehaas
* Ace Member *
Yeah it's weird, I've went through spells where I've had 3-4 firebirds bagged and no pds and vice versa. I've just come to live with the fact that I need both. Firebird's blunter nose feels better forehand but I prefer the pd for overhand shots. And probably the one shot I'll use a pd religiously for...compromised footing from a stand still, give a pd some anny and flex it to wherever it needs to go.
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