Check out this lie

[DavidSauls]

You need a clear determination of the OB line. A blade of grass cannot be that line because it can be easily moved by footsteps or disc contact. A moving OB line is very very bad.

So the OB line instead would be the edge of the pavement, regardless of how individual blades of grass might be hanging over it.

Try that out when the road is not paved.

It makes for a poor O.B. line and would be inexcusable for tournaments, but it's the kind of thing you might encounter in casual play. The road (dirt/gravel) is O.B., the grass is I.B., the exact line is extremely difficult. "Touching the grass" may be the best, though distasteful, answer.

 

[art_vandelay]

Is that a serious post based on PDGA rules or are you making fun of all the people who make up rules that aren't actually in the rule book?

The OB line isn't defined by what a disc is touching, it's where it sits in relation to the vertical plane defined by the ob line. If the ob line is the edge of the road, grass hanging over that line is irrelevant.

I don't want to be one of those guys that makes up rules to suit him. This is the way we've always played it at this course but this is mostly casual rounds. I'm going to ask the course captain how they play it when the course is set up for tournaments. I want to know the real rule so I don't make an ass out of myself in front of people who actually know the rules.

 

[diskey river]

If the disc is clearly surrounded by OB, then it is OB, whether it touches a blade of grass or not. That disc is clearly surrounded by OB.

 

[_MTL_]

It all comes down to what your definition of the line is.

To me, a line should never move, and a blade of grass as the boundary clearly could move.

Basically, ask yourself this. If someone in the next group threw to the exact same spot, would that balde of grass still be there and that player get the same exact call? No.

This is why it's OB.

 

[art_vandelay]

It all comes down to what your definition of the line is.

To me, a line should never move, and a blade of grass as the boundary clearly could move.

Basically, ask yourself this. If someone in the next group threw to the exact same spot, would that balde of grass still be there and that player get the same exact call? No.

This is why it's OB.

Not trying to pick an argument, but I don't see the logic of that statement. The course constantly changes. When a leaf falls off a tree, the course has changed. I think it's impossible to expect everyone that plays will play on the exact same course by this strict definition.

 

[prerube]

It is NOT OB here. If a disc is leaning on the Curb at Hot Shots it is considered inbounds.
we have curbs and road OB on every hole.

 

[bradharris]

Not trying to pick an argument, but I don't see the logic of that statement. The course constantly changes. When a leaf falls off a tree, the course has changed. I think it's impossible to expect everyone that plays will play on the exact same course by this strict definition.

The leaf falling is a very subtle change.

A better counter might be to consider a shoreline with moving water. It likely won't change a lot during the course of a round, but there will be minute differences from group to group.

But those points are moot in this case. The line is the edge of the pavement, the fact that grass is hanging over the pavement does not change where the edge of the pavement is.

 

[solomon.trenton]

We consider it in bounds if it is touching any least part of fairway, including one blade of grass. I always thought that was the correct rule, but maybe not given comments. Way to burst my bubble guys!!!

hey you missed the bird

 

[art_vandelay]

hey you missed the bird

We did miss the bird. But. My lie was not a sure par. My partner's was a birdie putt of about 50 feet. For my shot, it would have taken a pretty decent up shot to make par. Doable but hard. My partner and I won the competition by 2 strokes (8 total pairs). So if we don't make par we're a lot closer to the 2nd place team. So, it could have made the round very close on the last hole. That added pressure could have changed the outcome. So this stuff is important, at least to the people who are competing, even if it's just for fun.

 

[joshmo65]

It is NOT OB here. If a disc is leaning on the Curb at Hot Shots it is considered inbounds.
we have curbs and road OB on every hole.

We define the vertical edge of the curb as the OB line, thus, if it is leaning against the curb, over the edge, the leading edge is in bounds. If the entire curb is defined as OB, I don't see how leaning against it could be called in.

 

[prerube]

The curb is inbounds, so if someone is in the road and their disc is leaning on the curb, they are in (at hot shots dgc). Although then you get into the debate if touching=leaning.

 

[mashnut]

It is NOT OB here. If a disc is leaning on the Curb at Hot Shots it is considered inbounds.
we have curbs and road OB on every hole.

First of all, that's not a curb, it's a deteriorating edge of an asphalt road with a white stripe painted on it. Also, different courses and even different TDs define OB differently with respect to curbs, that's not a general rule.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Personally, I can't see how the OP is in bounds, but just to play devil's advocate:

If OB is water, then whether or not a shot is OB can be a function of how much it's rained recently. (e.g. a shot lands in bounds by sheer luck of the fact that it hasn't rained recently, so disc isn't surrounded by water, a week ago it would have been).

If OB is road, why can't OB be a function of how recently grass has been mowed? Shot lands on the road atop some long grass = OK? Same shot tomorrow is OB because grass has been mowed?

The line of verticality positively makes sense - the problem comes in actually establishing where that line is - not always so clearly delineated, especially with water.

 

[_MTL_]

Not trying to pick an argument, but I don't see the logic of that statement. The course constantly changes. When a leaf falls off a tree, the course has changed. I think it's impossible to expect everyone that plays will play on the exact same course by this strict definition.

There are things you can control (i.e. OB lines) and things you can't control (a leaf falling).

I can promise that this is out of bounds.

 

[art_vandelay]

There are things you can control (i.e. OB lines) and things you can't control (a leaf falling).

I can promise that this is out of bounds.

I accept that it's out of bounds. We had a great time joking around about the shot and it made the round more fun than it would have been. We counted it as in at the time and everyone was okay with it. But, I enjoy the debate here and I really want to know the correct rule going forward so that I don't accidentally spread BS to other people on our course.

 

[_MTL_]

The line is defined by the concrete, not the grass.

It's not whether "are you touching grass" it's "is the disc completelely surronded by concrete."

That's the biggest misconception with OB - they think that it's about touching something IB. It's not. It's about not completely being surronded by something OB. Which in this case it is.

 

[art_vandelay]

The line is defined by the concrete, not the grass.

It's not whether "are you touching grass" it's "is the disc completelely surronded by concrete."

That's the biggest misconception with OB - they think that it's about touching something IB. It's not. It's about not completely being surronded by something OB. Which in this case it is.

See that's the exact opposite of what I was told and had been going by for a while now. I'm glad I posted the pic, even though I now get to mentally add at least one stroke to what we shot last night.

 

[Emoney]

Its only out if the rest of ur group agrees, so if u get majority vote that its in...then it is.

 

[Dave242]

Its in bounds if there is a four leaf clover within one meter of the disc.

 

[art_vandelay]

Its only out if the rest of ur group agrees, so if u get majority vote that its in...then it is.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the group just wanted to move on since it was hella hot. I'd say people acquiesced because they did not know the rule or did not care enough to argue it. Very casual round, even though we all like to win. I just want to know the correct rule for future reference.