Check out this lie

[JTacoma03]

Guys (and gals) this is so clearly OB, I'm really not sure how it's even still a discussion.

The ONLY way the OP's lie is in, is if the TD (or in casual rounds, typical course rules) dictate that the white painted line on the pavement is inbounds (thereby making OB not "road and beyond" but "black asphalt and beyond")

If the course plays "road and beyond OB"...or even "road as a river" style this disc is OB. It is completely surrounded by the road.

I'm baffled (and worried) that this many people on here don't understand this rule.

Here is our issue:


in the top picture the disc actually crosses the plane of the curb.
in the middle the disc is leaning on the curb that is used as the line
on the bottom the disc is touching the curb.

We play that all 3 are in, I do not agree fully, but I do not fight it.

Prerube the only disc that would be Out is the 3rd one by your clubs definition. Due to the vertical plane rule itself. Geometry would find that if there is a triangle created between the disc, the ground, and the corner of the vertical face of the curb at least some part of the disc would have to be in bounds. Otherwise #3 would happen, the disc would fall down and lay flat OB.

 

[JTacoma03]

If the disc is touching grass, it's not surrounded completely by the road, it's surrounded by the road on all sides but the part, however tiny, that is touching the grass.

Also, using this logic, a disc that lands on a dry patch of ground that has a stream that forks around it is also OB. Heck, every lie is OB, if you consider that every hole has boundaries behind, to the sides, and beyond the intended line of play. The entire hole is "surrounded by OB" at this point.

This is why it's important to delineate what actually constitutes "in bounds," as well.

The line of OB is OB. The line of the concrete is OB. If a blade of grass is hanging over it does not matter.

The OB line is a vertical plane. Unless the disc is crossing that vertical plane it is OB.

It's very simple.

 

[jongoff09]

I'm baffled (and worried) that this many people on here don't understand this rule.

This ^^

in bounds. but not by the blade of grass. our ob lines operate similar to soccer's...the ball is only out if it full crosses the line. Same thing applies here. When OB lines or ropes are laid out it allows for the farthest point of the fairway or hole can reach, therefore the outside of the line. if any part of your disc is touching the line, you are still in bounds.

This is also why in big events rope is used instead of lines. Rope is thinner and straighter. But they place one rope above ground and one on ground so they can see if your disc is touching the rope line. If it is, you're in bounds, take your meter, and proceed

Not even close...

Out-of-bounds
An area designated by
the Director from which a disc may not be
played, and within which a stance may not be
taken. The out-of-bounds line extends a plane
vertically upward and downward. The out-of-
bounds line is part of the out-of-bounds area.

 

[Brent212]

Ha, someone's "worried" because people they've probably never met don't know the correct OB rule in "the book"? Is there really a rule book in disc golf? /sarcasm, I'm sure there's a book, but this OB talk is hilarious to people who don't even play OB.

 

[prerube]

Can a TD create an "inbounds line" it is basically an OB line, but if you are touching it. It is in. That is basically how our curb system works.

 

[JC17393]

Can a TD create an "inbounds line" it is basically an OB line, but if you are touching it. It is in. That is basically how our curb system works.

Yes. Just say that the OB line is the border where the curb meet the road, and that the curb itself is completely in-bounds.

This is why using physical objects (curbs, fences, etc) as boundaries is really poor form. OB "lines" should be lines, not objects. Use an object to identify where the line is (i.e. the line where the curb meets the road), but not as the line itself.

 

[jrawk]

Can a TD create an "inbounds line" it is basically an OB line, but if you are touching it. It is in. That is basically how our curb system works.

prerube, we already hashed this out a few years ago. here's the thread. the second to last post is that is the winner.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42766

 

[prerube]

Guys (and gals) this is so clearly OB, I'm really not sure how it's even still a discussion.

The ONLY way the OP's lie is in, is if the TD (or in casual rounds, typical course rules) dictate that the white painted line on the pavement is inbounds (thereby making OB not "road and beyond" but "black asphalt and beyond")

If the course plays "road and beyond OB"...or even "road as a river" style this disc is OB. It is completely surrounded by the road.

I'm baffled (and worried) that this many people on here don't understand this rule.




Prerube the only disc that would be Out is the 3rd one by your clubs definition. Due to the vertical plane rule itself. Geometry would find that if there is a triangle created between the disc, the ground, and the corner of the vertical face of the curb at least some part of the disc would have to be in bounds. Otherwise #3 would happen, the disc would fall down and lay flat OB.

The issue is they say OB is past the curb, so curb is in, therefore any disc touching the curb is inbounds.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yes. Just say that the OB line is the border where the curb meet the road, and that the curb itself is completely in-bounds.

This is why using physical objects (curbs, fences, etc) as boundaries is really poor form. OB "lines" should be lines, not objects. Use an object to identify where the line is (i.e. the line where the curb meets the road), but not as the line itself.

What if, in the O.P.'s example, they had declared that the O.B. line is where the grass meets the road?

Other than being a bad idea---does it change the effect of the blade of grass?

 

[zenbot]

Ha, someone's "worried" because people they've probably never met don't know the correct OB rule in "the book"? Is there really a rule book in disc golf? /sarcasm, I'm sure there's a book, but this OB talk is hilarious to people who don't even play OB.

It keeps me up at night.

 

[Dave242]

I haven't read this whole thread, but knowing the OB rules can make a big difference. Here is my story from a couple of weeks ago:

I played my first PDGA in about 5 years just for fun to see how my game has declined since not practicing for 5 years. There was one hole that had an optional throw of about 280' over OB onto the circular green. There was a stiff headwind, but I decided to go for it. My first throw went OB and my 2nd one was called in bounds by the the spotter (a pre-teen girl). I looked at my lie and it was overlapping the string sitting about 1/2" below it.

We decided that it was out of bounds since now the OB line (string) is considered OB. I proceeded to tin-cup the hole and ended up taking a 24. I wish I did not know the new rule changing the OB line from in bounds to out of bounds. I had no excuse not to know it since the TD went over it in painstaking detail in the players meeting. I did deuce the next 2 holes though, so that was good.

 

[Van1]

So in a sanctioned tourney, would the OP have gotten away with not knowing the rules simply because no one in HIS group knows the OB rules? Or would it be like ball golf and you can be penalized after the fact?

 

[art_vandelay]

So in a sanctioned tourney, would the OP have gotten away with not knowing the rules simply because no one in HIS group knows the OB rules? Or would it be like ball golf and you can be penalized after the fact?

Most likely no one, other than the people on the card, would have known it happened. Everyone I know that plays at the park where this happened plays it so that if the disk is touching any of the fairway, it's in. This is just for the casual rounds that we all play. I have never been part of a tourney at this park, so I don't know how they play it. I'm sure it would be explained in a player meeting and everyone would act according to how the TD intended.

 

[Van1]

Most likely no one, other than the people on the card, would have known it happened. Everyone I know that plays at the park where this happened plays it so that if the disk is touching any of the fairway, it's in. This is just for the casual rounds that we all play. I have never been part of a tourney at this park, so I don't know how they play it. I'm sure it would be explained in a player meeting and everyone would act according to how the TD intended.

I was just curious about the general question. Not anything specifically about your course or situation. After a round another person or group of people come to the conclusion that a rule was not followed, does the scorecard change like it would in ball golf.

There is no how they play it during a tourney. The rule is obvious and specific when it comes to OB. A blade of grass makes no difference. I do understand however that your round was casual doubles and of course you can play by any rules you all prefer.

 

[prerube]

The line itself is OB, but in this case the vertical face of the curb is not the OB line. Based on the OP description, the OB line would be where the curb meets the road (i.e. at the bottom of the curb). A disc does not need to cross in bounds, merely the last place it was in bounds. This is best understood as the last moment in time where the disc (if it had stopped moving) would have been considered inbounds. In this case, this would be where the disc touched the curb as the course rules define that position as being in bounds.

I think what i am thinking is that the curb should be OB, not "just past curb". If I skip a disc on the ground and it hits the curb. I get to play it from the curb I bounced off, even though I was never inbounds.
I am not suggesting that we change our OB rule, I just think our locals will be disappointed if they try to call a "leaner" as inbounds on another course and the players tell them, "sorry dude. You are out".

 

[JC17393]

I was just curious about the general question. Not anything specifically about your course or situation. After a round another person or group of people come to the conclusion that a rule was not followed, does the scorecard change like it would in ball golf.

Yes, it can.

803.03 Misplay
D. In instances where a misplay is discovered after the player has turned in the scorecard, the misplay shall not be replayed and the player shall receive a two-throw penalty for the misplay.

G. Types of misplay:
1. Incorrect Lie. The player has:
A. Teed off from a teeing area that is not the correct teeing area for the current hole; or,
B. Thrown from a lie established by a disc other than the thrown disc; or,
C. Played an out-of-bounds disc as if it were in-bounds; or,
D. Thrown from a lie established by a previous throw which passed a mandatory on the wrong side.

If no subsequent throws have been made after the misplayed throw, the player shall continue play from the correct lie and be assessed a one-throw penalty for the misplay. If an additional throw or throws have been made after the misplayed throw, the player shall complete the hole being played and be assessed a two-throw penalty for the misplay.

Given the penalty involved (two throws) for playing the disc as in-bounds when it is OB, it is probably wiser to play it and score it as if it was out-of-bounds and then take the issue to the TD post-round for clarification. If it turns out you were actually in-bounds, the TD can simply deduct the penalty from your score.

 

[art_vandelay]

Do you guys think there are some nerds in a tennis forum spending ten pages worth of messages debating what is in and what is out? I love disc golf.

 

[doctor professor]

I don't see why this topic has gone on this long. The shot is ob. Touching a fallen blade of grass does not mean the lie is ib. The ob line would be a vertical line where the edge of where the dirt (which the grass grows from) and the asphalt (or concrete) meet. Pretty simple. The disc is in the road, end of story.

 

[art_vandelay]

Moderator, please close the thread. According to the guy above me, we are all done. :\

 

[doctor professor]

Moderator, please close the thread. According to the guy above me, we are all done. :\

I must be mistaken. I thought this was a public forum where people can voice their opinions.facts are facts. Argue if you will. props on the +1 on your post count.