32nd Annual Kansas City Wide Open - June 20-22

[Timko]

A 49 on Swope Gold is insane.

The only hole I saw him really miss was #11 (#8 on the standard course). He facemasked the putt.

KC locals already know this, but I have designed the Swope Gold configuration for the past 4 years. This year had more chances to score but a lot more risk, and at the beginning of the week I predicted someone from Open would shoot in the 40's for the first time since I started. For those who haven't played Swope Gold, it's not so much a distance course as an accuracy course. If you can throw a Teebird 400' on a variety of lines you're going to go a long way on the course. I watched McBeth for the first part of his round, and he was puring everything. The OB forces a particular subset of shot shapes off the tee, and he was shaping them exactly like I pictured.

Funny story about the round. On #17 he had gotten to that magic -11 that he needed to shoot in the 40's. He gets up to #18 and throws it OB. I shrug and walk off to go get some food. As I'm walking, I hear a ching, cheering, and see him sprinting up #18's fairway. He canned an 80'-100' to circle 3 and get in at 49. That's the last time I walk off from watching him.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Winthrop Gold is a mid-range and fairway driver course for the top players due to having so much OB. It's the number of higher rated players increasing the number of lower scores at least there. Rules changes and hole design tweaks also play a role in scoring changes at Winthrop from year to year. The theory on why scoring hasn't reduced for players overall on say a 320' holes (and shorter) is the faster drivers are less accurate partly due to skipping away. So even though players like me who had a tougher time parking holes 10 years ago with slower discs might now be able to sometimes get that distance, we're not getting close enough to score better.

 

[bwgort]

Winthrop Gold is a mid-range and fairway driver course for the top players due to having so much OB. It's the number of higher rated players increasing the number of lower scores at least there. Rules changes and hole design tweaks also play a role in scoring changes at Winthrop from year to year. The theory on why scoring hasn't reduced for players overall on say a 320' holes (and shorter) is the faster drivers are less accurate partly due to skipping away. So even though players like me who had a tougher time parking holes 10 years ago with slower discs might now be able to sometimes get that distance, we're not getting close enough to score better.

Alright. How about the forehand shot? Like you said the disc technology has changed a lot in the last 10 years to make forehand (and thumber) a much more viable option. Has that allowed for players to shoot lower like you alluded to in your previous post? Could someone like wysocki who throws a lot of forehands do the same thing in the 90s with a dx viper?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm not sure technology has much to do with increasing forehands. But there are more hole designs now where having a decent forehand and great backhand can slightly improve scoring. One of the things that has bugged Harold Duvall has been that most hole designs don't make a forehand a significantly better option compelling backhand savants (as he calls them) like Climo and Schultz to throw a forehand on the hole as the better play. He's tried hard at Winthrop to make a few holes where having the forehand is the superior choice. Now, there are more course designs where having the ability to throw both forehand and backhand well becomes a necessity to shoot at the elite level.

 

[1978]

In the Mcfly video, its funny that Feldberg is complaining that people arent calling him for footfaults...because he wants to re-throw after a bad shot. Grass looked a little tall in the videos was that really the case?

 

[paulw]

More interesting was Dave whining about no foot faults when one of the ones he claimed a fault on wasn't. The second one you couldn't see his feet, but it was a stand-still delivery, my guess is it wasn't a foot fault either.

Should've been flagged for cheating. Poor guy at least needed a hug.

 

[SteezeOG]

Which begs the question(and a loaded one it is): Is McBeth the best to ever play the game?

It's not even really close yet. That's a perfect comparison to the Tiger Woods Jack Nicklaus debate in golf. Tiger was the best at the time and everyone had real hopes he would some day take more than 18 majors and the best ever title but look at it now. He'll go down MAYBE top five ever.

If McBeth can get to 8 world titles then I think the debate can start. Climo was just dominate and so is McBeth but one could argue there is more guys at the top pushing for the best spot then Climo had to compete with.

Don't forget, Climo will no doubt win a few titles as a Master. If you want to be picky about it McBeth will have to win those titles too before you can say outright he's the best disc golfer ever.

 

[Usher]

You think it is because of technology? Watch this video.

http://youtu.be/qLiOsUkU-Vs

 

[Timko]

I would say a McBeth vs Climo discussion is like a McIlroy vs Tiger debate. McBeth is the best player in the game right now. He's got big D to be in the top tier of distance guys. He's probably the best shot worker in the game right now. He putts well. He thinks the best on the course. And he's clutch. But he's just too young to start talking about being a GOAT. McIlroy was christened as the next Tiger Woods after winning a couple majors. You have to wait.

I think I will go out on a limb and say no one will ever break Ken's consecutive world champion streak though.

All that said, McBeth tore Swope Gold apart yesterday. He was only the really one that did. He's also the only one I saw in 3 days throw 90% of the shots correctly and accurately. So he deserves it.

 

[Halcón]

It's not even really close yet. That's a perfect comparison to the Tiger Woods Jack Nicklaus debate in golf. Tiger was the best at the time and everyone had real hopes he would some day take more than 18 majors and the best ever title but look at it now. He'll go down MAYBE top five ever.

Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer in the history of the game.

Paul McBeth has a decent chance to be called the GOAT, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

[discoriented]

Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer in the history of the game.

...not named Jack.

 

[Timko]

So back to Kansas City...

 

[1978]

1. Rory/Tiger? I've never heard something more ludicrous. Tiger never had a stretch where he struggled to make cuts during his prime years.

2. Golf has been around so long that Jack was competing against a similar competitive field, and winning. So I think tiger has to match or come close to his championship records to be in the same conversation.

3. When Climo dominated, the sport was relatively young. Not as much competition. I would value his championships less each individually than I would a championship now...probably 2:1 because of how fast the sport is growing and how much more competition there is now...accessibility to discs and courses, training videos, etc. 6-8 Worlds and 2-3 Masters and I'd give the nod to someone in this generation. Id consider USDGC worlds level too. So 5 worlds 2 USDGC 2 masters and Id say McBeth tops Climo....that is way down the road though.

It gets harder and harder to dominate as a sport grows in popularity...I remember Jeremy McGrath tearing up the 250CC bike racing, Tony Hawk, Babe Ruth, Im sure there are examples from other sports.

 

[1978]

Oh yea... "wide open" is definitely a good name for this event. Kind of a boring video just seemed like hyzer bomb after hyzer bomb.

 

[blackcatsmith]

1. Rory/Tiger? I've never heard something more ludicrous. Tiger never had a stretch where he struggled to make cuts during his prime years.

2. Golf has been around so long that Jack was competing against a similar competitive field, and winning. So I think tiger has to match or come close to his championship records to be in the same conversation.

3. When Climo dominated, the sport was relatively young. Not as much competition. I would value his championships less each individually than I would a championship now...probably 2:1 because of how fast the sport is growing and how much more competition there is now...accessibility to discs and courses, training videos, etc. 6-8 Worlds and 2-3 Masters and I'd give the nod to someone in this generation. Id consider USDGC worlds level too. So 5 worlds 2 USDGC 2 masters and Id say McBeth tops Climo....that is way down the road though.

It gets harder and harder to dominate as a sport grows in popularity...I remember Jeremy McGrath tearing up the 250CC bike racing, Tony Hawk, Babe Ruth, Im sure there are examples from other sports.

Ah, Tony Hawk.... He was the best in that it was a forgone conclusion that he would win whatever event he entered. He maybe wasn't my favorite, or the most stylish, but that's just my opinion. What he was- was a dominant competitor and innovator . Cab, Christian, and others were great skaters but Tony transcended the sport. For christ sakes my mom knows who he is. Now I am really proud we have such a class act as McBeth as our champion, but whether or not he can uplift the sport and become a household name remains to be seen.

 

[blackcatsmith]

Oh yea... "wide open" is definitely a good name for this event. Kind of a boring video just seemed like hyzer bomb after hyzer bomb.

Unless you're a lefty.

 

[erock216]

Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer in the history of the game.

Paul McBeth has a decent chance to be called the GOAT, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I bet you think lebron is the best basketball player of all time. Kids these days.

 

[Halcón]

I bet you think lebron is the best basketball player of all time. Kids these days.

And you probably think Babe Ruth is the greatest. We all know that there is no way to quantify the "GOAT." But it's fun to argue.

 

[heartman]

And you probably think Babe Ruth is the greatest. We all know that there is no way to quantify the "GOAT." But it's fun to argue.

I know for a fact that Babe Ruth is NOT the greatest basketball player of all time.

 

[1978]

I know for a fact that Babe Ruth is NOT the greatest basketball player of all time.

I hear he had a great slapshot but there is no video of it to compare to Pele's