Form Critique - Just starting to learn things right

[Sard0nyx]

I've been watching a lot of the Sidewinder/Seabas and Loopghost videos recently and am trying to develop snap.

Here's a few videos of where I'm at. Standstills around 300'-320' if I throw correctly. Maxing out at around 360' with X-step. Let me know what I should fix or how I can break that 350ish barrier. I think my form looks a lot better at standstill versus moving with the x-step.

Standstill (Star Teebird):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GUF5A0MIBE

Side (Champ Orc):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f1mmAh0fV0

Back (Prodigy D4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PcvTt3M-qc

Thanks for your help! I'll keep this thread updated as I continue fieldwork. I know it will be a journey, but I'm ready for it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Not too shabby overall.

Your left upper arm is too collapsed/hugging yourself. Need to keep your upper arm wider to allow your elbow to bend/swing the disc closer into your center instead of behind your right shoulder. Door Frame Drill your shoulder should be getting pulled further back as you shift forward. Might help to move your stance more inside the door frame to widen the backswing more out away from you toward left tee side, instead of behind you.

SS - I would start in slightly wider stance and get more dynamic, address to the target and shift a little back and forth and swing the arm around, and take a smaller stride. You are setup very narrow and static and never addressing to the target and then taking a big stride.

x-step - I would stride front foot straight into plant instead of to the right.

 

[Sard0nyx]

Not too shabby overall.

Your left upper arm is too collapsed/hugging yourself. Need to keep your upper arm wider to allow your elbow to bend/swing the disc closer into your center instead of behind your right shoulder. Door Frame Drill your shoulder should be getting pulled further back as you shift forward. Might help to move your stance more inside the door frame to widen the backswing more out away from you toward left tee side, instead of behind you.

SS - I would start in slightly wider stance and get more dynamic, address to the target and shift a little back and forth and swing the arm around, and take a smaller stride. You are setup very narrow and static and never addressing to the target and then taking a big stride.

x-step - I would stride front foot straight into plant instead of to the right.

I'll start trying this in the field right away. Thanks!

So should the disc be farther away from my body during the inward pull? I've been reading about power pocket and trying to incorporate the "right pec" position (left since I'm lefthanded). But a lot of form videos I watch of pros and stuff Bradley Walker says seems to suggest that the disc starts the rotational arc from either center chest or slightly closer to your back shoulder. I think I've been focusing too hard on bringing the disc close into the chest. I don't know if that whole ramble made sense or not, but I'll go out in the field sometime soon and try these things out.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't think there is one method that works for everybody. No two swings are ever the same from the same person. Perceptions can vary from reality. Cameras can produce parallax and the science can not tell you the intentions and perceptions, or understanding vs knowledge. Everyone has different lever configurations and ability or disability. Experiment. If you just try the same thing over and over, then you are just spinning your wheels out.
http://www.golfwrx.com/91935/method-teaching/

In my experience the closer I get the disc to my center and extend/whip out away wider = more distance. Bigger inertial confrontation between the disc and body CoG.

Straight Arm:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137392

Right Pec:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u90zsROhVKw&t=1m30s

Avery' upper arm angle looks to be 180 degrees here so he wasn't lying, and Sandstrom around 160. GG around 170.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM_Ank9CoiM&t=14m10s

 

[Sard0nyx]

All right. It's been about 8 months since I last took video of my form. Over 7 months of that was dedicated to swing mechanics and lower body/hip movement. I got sidetracked a little with the group that should remain unnamed. This last week, I spent hours researching and reading about the hit and generating it. I went out to the field a few days and I think I'm starting to half hit the disc. Also, I think I need to sync up some of my body timing, but I think overall, it looks much smoother.

Vapor Enigma
https://youtu.be/oeM0t11F3ho

Star Thunderbird
https://youtu.be/donkArW-H4M

S-line FD
https://youtu.be/4J8t5H3q1RQ

Any tips on achieving the full hit versus just a partial hit? I want even more effortless distance.

 

[Cowabungapizzabomb]

these do look nice and smooth. idk about all that full hit half hit stuff but what I'm seeing is your body crowding the disc a bit on its way through, and your hit will be better if you fix the crowding.

In the behind the tee view, it looks like you stagger plant out to the right of the teepad a little more than necessary, and as soon as the disc starts advancing forward from your windup, there's a noticeable lunge to the right with your torso/core.

I would straighten out that plant stride a bit to encourage your weight to keep goin targetward and not to the right, and engage the core and maybe sit back a little more so your hips/center can be established in a lane, that way they can counter your swing out. Like the hammer throw kinda thing.

Upper arm is also a little passive and youre still folding a bit which is tied in to the crowding. Watch Avery Jenkins and maybe try a couple with his exaggerated erect upper arm and high elbow.

 

[sidewinder22]

Note how your left shoulder never swings or lags back behind your CoG.

 

[sidewinder22]

Door frame should pull your shoulder back stretching your lat as you stride hips forward.

 

[Sard0nyx]

Note how your left shoulder never swings or lags back behind your CoG.

You're talking about tightening my left shoulder and starting the swing fork up higher like those photos? I think that would get me more power if I can implement that.

Also, I've been planting to the right of the tee pad because I occasionally yank some shots to the left. From watching the bartering ram video. But maybe I should be striding diagonally across the tee pad rather than stepping forward.

Thanks for your help. It's been an interesting journey so far

 

[Sard0nyx]

Door frame should pull your shoulder back stretching your lat as you stride hips forward.

I'll try the door frame drill out. I found it easier to hit the disc or feel the hit when I do the Seppo short reach. It's all a matter of timing and positioning. I've had trouble strong arming the disc when I swing farther back.

 

[sidewinder22]

You yank left because your shoulder isn't turned or pulled back far enough. Should be loose, not really tight or stiff, but pulled taut(maybe that feels tight or tensioned) through the lat like ball on string or bungie cord or sling shot.

I'm not too concerned with the reachback height, maybe just slightly higher. You should drop your CoG lower so your arm/disc appears higher. This should happen in door frame drill, so your CoG moves further forward and down as you stride away from door frame and left shoulder.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'll try the door frame drill out. I found it easier to hit the disc or feel the hit when I do the Seppo short reach. It's all a matter of timing and positioning. I've had trouble strong arming the disc when I swing farther back.

You can do door frame drill with bent elbow like Seppo, it's a little harder, but need to use other side of door frame or find a pole, so lower arm/elbow is folded and holding it, instead of the hand. Should pull your shoulder/lat back same either way.

 

[Sard0nyx]

You yank left because your shoulder isn't turned or pulled back far enough. Should be loose, not really tight or stiff, but pulled taut(maybe that feels tight or tensioned) through the lat like ball on string or bungie cord or sling shot.

I'm not too concerned with the reachback height, maybe just slightly higher. You should drop your CoG lower so your arm/disc appears higher. This should happen in door frame drill, so your CoG moves further forward and down as you stride away from door frame and left shoulder.

I think I see it. My backswing isn't long enough. Like in golf, my club wouldn't be back behind my head. So I need to rotate my shoulders back so they're 90 degrees away from the target.

 

[Sard0nyx]

Went out into the field a few times this past week. Took some video today of some putter shots. Working on getting that shoulder turned back all the way. Also trying out the wide rail or wide-narrow-wide. Most of these putter shots went about 250'-275' depending on X-step or Standstill.





Let me know what I can do to fix nose angle and get more distance. I'm probably throwing fairways and mids just a little further than 300', so somethings not working right.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are setup up pigeon toed and a little too staggered closed, need to open up your feet into more neutral stance to start, you should only setup with front foot turned back after making a backswing and slight stride.

Note how you are leaning back a little, I'm more forward with mass.

 

[Sard0nyx]

Working on the hit

After a couple more weeks of fieldwork, I've added about 50ft of consistent distance. It seems to be mostly all coming from wrist action though and trying to unload my wrist at the hit point. Also working on the late acceleration and using the arm as a whip.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks pretty good except your elbow is coming inward into your body, instead of going/extending/releasing outward away from body.

 

[Sard0nyx]

Thanks for all your help with me form. I'm just curious what the next steps are and what I should work on to get more distance. I can see from video that my form looks good but not great. What do I need to do next in order to get to the 450' throws? Or is that something where blowing up the form and starting over is required? Reading through DGR archives hasn't been much help because it seems like the people who get it just get there naturally. I understand the concepts, it's just difficult to actually do it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Exaggerating things back and forth. Slowing down to slow motion. Record and review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogonOY1DoHU#t=40m
"Tiny changes.... for most of you, you have to exaggerate things so far to get that machine to say the numbers it's supposed to that you would probably never stay with it. When I finally get someone to do what's right, they say, that can't be right. My answer to them is that well, you weren't a very good player to begin with, so I wouldn't trust what you felt anyway."

 

[Sard0nyx]

Destroyer vid is from a couple days ago. Went with more of a pendulum for now. The other clip is from a couple months ago when I wasn't using the pendulum swing as much.

Been working on it for a year, but it's not much different than before. Distance hasn't increased either. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to stop my elbow from dropping. Even when I warmup swing it looks right, but when I actually swing it drops again. I'm not sure if that will rob me of that much distance though. What do I need to do in order to get 50 more feet?