Stop using the power pocket, Stop it!

[Sard0nyx]

The best way I can explain any of this is that there isn't really a "secret technique" to driving.

It's learning that you have to let go of the wheel and smash on the gas. As long as your alignment (fundamentals) are good, you'll have a decent result.

The problems come from people thinking that "smashing on the gas" means "throwing as hard as you can" which is not the case.

Smashing the gas is hitting your brace proper, and if your body is setup right (aligned) the results will take care of themselves.

Taking coaching to a new simplicity level has really helped my mental state for one, I stop trying to slay form and only focus on the most basics of basics with people and see results SO much faster.

It still follows my concept of always trying to find the underlying core mechanic that's screwing the rest of things up.

But when we look at a lot of mechanics overall, we have a basic idea of a lot of the important steps overall with those mechanics.
And we should focus on the basics of those mechanics, and while I love talking about a lot of this advanced stuff. I don't think there is any one "move" that is going to break the records.

If anything at all, the 'secret move' is to not try and do any 'secret moves' but to be relaxed and engaged fluidly, which will create the largest kinetic chain as we are at that point just bumping the steering wheel ever so slightly to keep things on track, vs trying to grip it and drive it the whole way.

I mean, if we want to think about it, that's the whole idea behind the pendulum style swing.
Twirly bird, noodle arm. whatever you want ot call it.
Its about trying to keep it as simple and natural as possible letting the flow create the swing.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me or if you're talking about something totally different. I agree there isn't really a secret move to throw far. But I think when we focus on the kinetic chain too much, we forget to put that energy into the disc. The focus of the throw must be to leverage the disc first and foremost. If that doesn't happen the disc just comes out. And many people can slip that disc out and have it go 350-400.

I also don't think most people come here to read our threads just to get a "decent" result. I venture that lots want to throw 450-500. You can't throw that far watching YouTube content creators or hanging around on Facebook.

 

[Brychanus]

I agree, but even knowing this I still sometimes get so focused on positions I end up too tense and lose track of the feels.

This reminded me of Blake_t and the "Incomplete" Secret Technique thread

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/...&sid=5c28b9d2b8bac693e83307906d99a897#p292777

"it's all about feel and not about trying to mimic specifics."

Relatable.

I went back to the best "freewheeling" swing I could find after getting myself in a bad place recently, and it's been totally refreshing. I throw much better and it makes it easier to focus on the one swing issue I'm working on at the time.

You need to find a way to get your body moving loose and athletic and freely overall and improve mechanics in that context.

Often the mechanics are blocking people from doing something fundamentally necessary, so it makes sense to intervene on them in those cases.

Usually the way I expect something to feel before it starts working well is completely wrong.

I don't know his personal situation, but Blake once mentioned that he had to stop playing since his plant knee deteriorated.

Sometimes I wonder if throwing mechanics had anything to do with that.

 

[Kennets]

I got a video somewhere of my daughter throwing a chunk of ice (backhand) when she were around 3 years old. Her form is actually "good" and probably better than a lot of people throwing a backhand. I guess it's because of the weight of the ice and her absolutely not giving a sh.. about form. She lets her body do the work. Like when we throw something heavy or swing a heavy object.

Point being, i think we get "lost" in certain mechanics, instead letting the body react accordingly to the "swing".

For me (being a baby thrower), when i think of "you're throwing a heavy object, you're throwing a heavy object" - all i have to think of is my brace and swing. Throwing a heavy object without bracing? Thats gonna hurt. Throwing a heavy object without having the right plane in shoulders/arm/hand, along with the right swing timing? That's gonna hurt and be very uncomfortable. But everyone one of us is able to get the right weight shift, brace and timing when we for example throw a hammer or another "heavy" object

I rarely get it right, but when i do, i get my max distance and it feels like i barely tried.

 

[Sheep]

I got a video somewhere of my daughter throwing a chunk of ice (backhand) when she were around 3 years old. Her form is actually "good" and probably better than a lot of people throwing a backhand. I guess it's because of the weight of the ice and her absolutely not giving a sh.. about form. She lets her body do the work. Like when we throw something heavy or swing a heavy object.

Point being, i think we get "lost" in certain mechanics, instead letting the body react accordingly to the "swing".

For me (being a baby thrower), when i think of "you're throwing a heavy object, you're throwing a heavy object" - all i have to think of is my brace and swing. Throwing a heavy object without bracing? Thats gonna hurt. Throwing a heavy object without having the right plane in shoulders/arm/hand, along with the right swing timing? That's gonna hurt and be very uncomfortable. But everyone one of us is able to get the right weight shift, brace and timing when we for example throw a hammer or another "heavy" object

I rarely get it right, but when i do, i get my max distance and it feels like i barely tried.

That's pretty much everything I've been trying to say as well as what Jaani is saying.

Try and help people make things as natural as possible, only add this other stuff in when the mechanics are not falling into place, but as well, We should be looking at some peoples form as well when it comes to these things as "are we coaching them in a way to force their body to react powerfully to give this result?"

The swim move thing is a way to describe the action that should happen more naturally when the body tries to counter the rotation.
Vs talking about it as an active action vs a passive action.

 

[drk_evns]

The problem is, you're not a child. So you have to do drills that emphasize those feelings, you don't just naturally feel like you need to leverage the disc because it's heavier in relation to your body.

Hence the need to talk about and focus on things like the swim move, kinetic chain, etc.

 

[Kennets]

You're absolutely right drk! I meant no harm in my post, having English as a second language can hinder my explanations at times.

There's is a lot of drills out there that emphasizes on getting the "feeling" right. Seabass22, in my opinion, sometimes pump some absolute gems out, in terms of "how it should feel".

A one handed backhand in tennis for example, the offhand does a "swim move" to counter the upper body rotation (or something like that) and even though I haven't played tennis that much, it just comes natural. If only I could translate that to a BH in disc golf

People need different cues to get that feeling and i am in no position to tell what works for other disc golfers.

 

[drk_evns]

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you specifically despite the language sounding that way. It was more to make an overall point about why these weird drills are often important.

 

[Sheep]

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you specifically despite the language sounding that way. It was more to make an overall point about why these weird drills are often important.

I think the overall message is that its a drill to create a feeling and motion that is correct when were not doing it naturally as we should be.

Not a "secret sauce" to achieve max power.

So when we talk about them, we might emphasis it in a way that is a bit to heavy handed. If that makes any sense?

So we end up talking about it in a "you need to do this" and we might be missing out on some other things that are leading to why they are not doing it naturally.

 

[drk_evns]

Sure, form critique is always best, but I tend to think this place is for that type of digression.

Do you have a personal thread for your throw?

 

[sidewinder22]

That's pretty much everything I've been trying to say as well as what Jaani is saying.

Try and help people make things as natural as possible, only add this other stuff in when the mechanics are not falling into place, but as well, We should be looking at some peoples form as well when it comes to these things as "are we coaching them in a way to force their body to react powerfully to give this result?"

The swim move thing is a way to describe the action that should happen more naturally when the body tries to counter the rotation.
Vs talking about it as an active action vs a passive action.

There is nothing passive about this swim move from younger Corey Ellis. First time I tried it I got an extra 30' or so, very noticeable increase in speed/spin on the disc.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think my main issue with this forum is that there are bits and pieces scattered about. It's very difficult to sort through the pieces and put them all together. I truly think the average male should be able to throw 450-500 on a golf line with proper form. I do agree with you that work must be put in. You can't just change something and magically add 100ft to your throw.

I see you've started compiling a big writeup on form. I'd love to read it if you've gotten some decent progress on it.

I don't know if you have seen these stickies, but I think it leaves enough crumbs:
Best Practices PSA: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126516
Instructional Videos: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119328

These also seem pertinent...

DG Expectations and Pushing Limits/Can Anybody Throw 500'?:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141694

I posted this on your analysis thread couple years ago, I think everyone should watch the Smarter Everyday video. It took him 8 months to learn how to ride the bike, meanwhile it only took his son 2 weeks to learn it!

I don't think there is one method that works for everybody. No two swings are ever the same from the same person. Perceptions can vary from reality. Cameras can produce parallax and the science can not tell you the intentions and perceptions, or understanding vs knowledge. Everyone has different lever configurations and ability or disability. Experiment. If you just try the same thing over and over, then you are just spinning your wheels out.
http://www.golfwrx.com/91935/method-teaching/

In my experience the closer I get the disc to my center and extend/whip out away wider = more distance. Bigger inertial confrontation between the disc and body CoG.

Straight Arm:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137392

Right Pec:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u90zsROhVKw&t=1m30s

 

[Brychanus]

Since we talked a lot about the swim move here too I wanted to link back to visuals that I found powerful. I selected these because they help show how the lever chain involving the "top line" of the shoulders all the way to the nose of the disc works.

Still frames showing the relative movement of the whip "basing" rear shoulder to the throwing shoulder:

I cropped gifs from the Innova tip of the whip video: