This grip lock thing needs to stop

[Putt for D'oh]

We built a kinetic chain that happened to peak there.

So when we end up doing like the simon gif ahead, its not "grip lock." It's a bad kinetic chain build that peaks when the disc releases.

This is it. Grip Lock is just a part of the jargon and a descriptor. I usually say I yanked it rather than GL myself. But a lot of sports have jargon that are technically misnomers for what they are addressing. I mean 'Snap' is a much bigger issue when it comes to misunderstanding and misuse in DG. And talking about misnomer, isn't calling grip lock and excuse also wrong? Its a descriptor and you know most people that are shanking like that don't know the REASON, but they know the word used in disc golf for yanking your shot off into the woods. They know that effed up but they don't know exactly what. IF there is a newbie that says something like I need to 'release' sooner or 'let go of the disc on time' then we will have a discussion about grip and timing and the disc ripping out. Brain dumping here so yeah "Release" is an even bigger problematic word than snap.

I wonder if Will Shuestrick saying in one of his videos quite a while ago that a max distance drive is just a controlled grip lock influenced Robbie C and/or Josh? or it could be that they are experiencing what a lot of us have that a disc we yanked right went really really far. "How do I do that but put it on target?"
Its really my only criticism of those channels and why I don't watch them or recommend them. I'm going through my own journey I don't want to be coached by someone that is learning as they go, and frankly behind me in their progression. Josh is a coach first and disc golfer more recently but I got REALLY turned off by him when he did a Live Instagram interview with Coach Chris and kept cutting him off and trying to insert his own incorrect conclusions about some of the biomechanics Chris was talking about. That was the last time I watched any content by Josh.
Good for them for making it on youtube, I just add them to the list of channels I don't give views to. There is much more out there that is much more wrong than they are.

For me? Griplocks have always been rounding and timing BUT its not just massive rounding it is a fucked up whip in a distorted kinetic chain. It happens when people's throw starts too fast and there is no acceleration through the hit to the rip. Yes the arm speed through the power pocket is handicapped because of rounding and then the arm then doesn't fully accelerate until follow through where the disc rips out. THAT might be the one time a lot of people really feel the disc truly rip out. THAT is the feeling they are looking for. Pulling really hard to start a throw results in the disc decelerating through the part of the swing you want the acceleration to start. Then related are those low power shots like the Simon gif (although I think he screwed up with timing worried about backhanding that tree to his right) people try and slow down but the end result is the same as pulling hard with the arm to start a big throw, the disc comes out of the power pocket decelerating and doesn't accelerate until what should be the follow through. All that said PULLING can be added to Release and Snap as being terms that are more problematic than Grip Lock.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I wonder if Will Shuestrick saying in one of his videos quite a while ago that a max distance drive is just a controlled grip lock influenced Robbie C and/or Josh? or it could be that they are experiencing what a lot of us have that a disc we yanked right went really really far. "How do I do that but put it on target?"

I would assume that they're focused on hand-feel. It is less "how do I do that but put it on target" than "how can I recreate that hand-feel and put it on target." (as you kind of allude to in your last paragraph)

At least - that's what I got from it when Avery gave me the same piece of advice you heard from Will. I got it from Avery back around 2008-2009ish.

 

[Waddball]

For me? Griplocks have always been rounding and timing BUT its not just massive rounding it is a fucked up whip in a distorted kinetic chain. It happens when people's throw starts too fast and there is no acceleration through the hit to the rip.

These sorts of conversations always make me think of Wittgenstein and his notion of "meaning as use" (old philosophy major here). I think the DG community has a solid idea of what griplock means and how to use it "correctly" (and I like your description).

Respectfully, I think the OP is tilting at windmills here. There's value exploring the nuances, in isolating that WTF Richard finish and using our common experience (we've all done that, and some of us--cough, cough--still do on occasion) to learn how to move a "good griplock" finish to the right place in the swing. That's what most of the coaches cited are trying to do: take a common experience and use it to improve our mental model.

 

[Sheep]

These sorts of conversations always make me think of Wittgenstein and his notion of "meaning as use" (old philosophy major here). I think the DG community has a solid idea of what griplock means and how to use it "correctly" (and I like your description).

Respectfully, I think the OP is tilting at windmills here. There's value exploring the nuances, in isolating that WTF Richard finish and using our common experience (we've all done that, and some of us--cough, cough--still do on occasion) to learn how to move a "good griplock" finish to the right place in the swing. That's what most of the coaches cited are trying to do: take a common experience and use it to improve our mental model.

The point being, we can call it what it is and look professional as coaches, or we can keep fucking off and justifying the nuances of poor ass terms that don't properly describe the action that is being performed.

Grip lock, flat out, is an excuse for a poor shot.
You literally didn't grip lock it, its a lie.

The disc will rip out of your hand on time when your on time, If it comes out late, its not cause you got some big massive dick level grip strength and the disc cant come out theorizing that you "gripped so hard the disc couldn't come out" which is literally what it means. It has absolutely nothing to do with that at all.
It's literally where the kinetic chain peaks to force the disc to rip out of your hand. It comes out 20 feet to the right and we wanna use an excuse like "grip lock" instead of "my timing was off" or "I didn't get into that shot properly."

Grip lock is literally a way for us to mentally justify a mistake as not a mistake.
Even Stokely says this as well.


The terms we use to talk about things mean a lot. The point of the video is to stop lying to yourself and others about it.
When you start accepting that you fucked up and had bad form vs making a fake excuse to yourself to justify your poor shot, you'll start improving way quicker vs just like "oh I grip locked that one"
No you threw it like absolute dogshit and you should accept that you did so you can get better.

 

[Sewer bill]

its not cause you got some big massive dick level grip strength and the disc cant come out theorizing that you "gripped so hard the disc couldn't come out"

Literally me.

 

[Brodysseus]

I have pulled that Simon move...well not often but more than I'd care to admit when I try to do a patent pending where I really try to put some mustard on itm