13 disc bag limit...

[curmudgeonDwindle]

Coming from a golf background, my formative disc golf friends and I often discussed this lack of a 'carry limit' in disc golf. One idea we generated was a weight limit for tournaments. For example, players might be limited to 2500 grams of discs...

It's important to recognize the reason for this club limit in golf is the desire to have players rely more on their native skill rather than their equipment and I see no reason why limits of this sort would be inappropriate for X-tier events, despite the potential administrative hassles.

Personally, I appreciate the effect on play speed that a 'reduced' bag has...KISS.

 

[mojorooks]

DX Wraith
ProD Undertaker
CryZtal Z Undertaker
DX Valkyrie
Opto Diamond
Champion Banshee
2 Buzzz
DX Shark
Prime Warden
Dx Aviar
Centennial IPA
Yuengling

 

[DavidSauls]

Coming from a golf background, my formative disc golf friends and I often discussed this lack of a 'carry limit' in disc golf. One idea we generated was a weight limit for tournaments. For example, players might be limited to 2500 grams of discs...

It's important to recognize the reason for this club limit in golf is the desire to have players rely more on their native skill rather than their equipment and I see no reason why limits of this sort would be inappropriate for X-tier events, despite the potential administrative hassles.

Personally, I appreciate the effect on play speed that a 'reduced' bag has...KISS.

Perhaps in golf, it was a mercy rule for caddies.

 

[mojorooks]

Coming from a golf background, my formative disc golf friends and I often discussed this lack of a 'carry limit' in disc golf. One idea we generated was a weight limit for tournaments. For example, players might be limited to 2500 grams of discs...

It's important to recognize the reason for this club limit in golf is the desire to have players rely more on their native skill rather than their equipment and I see no reason why limits of this sort would be inappropriate for X-tier events, despite the potential administrative hassles.

Personally, I appreciate the effect on play speed that a 'reduced' bag has...KISS.

I think disc golf varies vs ball golf in the skill level regard. For example, I bag about 10 discs and if I was given more, I'd have no clue what to do with them. My most recent disc, an Opto Diamond sat in my bag for weeks before I got the confidence in it to use regularly. The more skilled players on this site don't have that issue. The more skilled players have a greater knowledge of a larger array of discs.

Of course, its the newer players that get gung-ho and buy and bag everything that creates the big delays you are referring to. I've never had to wait for my partner to select his disc but it sounds pretty frustrating.

 

[Motorpro]

Coming from a golf background, my formative disc golf friends and I often discussed this lack of a 'carry limit' in disc golf. One idea we generated was a weight limit for tournaments. For example, players might be limited to 2500 grams of discs...

It's important to recognize the reason for this club limit in golf is the desire to have players rely more on their native skill rather than their equipment and I see no reason why limits of this sort would be inappropriate for X-tier events, despite the potential administrative hassles.

Personally, I appreciate the effect on play speed that a 'reduced' bag has...KISS.

This has been discussed a million times. Emac had the perfect answer to why the ball golf comparison doesn't work. In ball golf you have to take your driver and throw it over a lake.hoping you don't lose it without having a back up.

 

[Rumpled]

13? I think this is an inadequate number for a versatile player on a course that demands a variety of shots. Particularly, if that player is facing a course with which they are unfamiliar. Also, conditions can change dramatically during a tournament day. 20 seems more reasonable to me.

My local course on a calm day, I could be limited to 6 discs and it wouldn't hurt my score.

Spike, Zone
Archer, Buzz, Bard
Underworld, Explorer, XXX
Hatchet, Escape, Culverin
King, Sword

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Having read through the thread, I noticed that the OP never offered any justification for a limit on the number of discs. There are a few hints and offered rationales by others, but from what I gather these are the offered reasons:

1. Golf(real) does it.
2. Players with more discs have a competitive advantage.
3. Fewer discs would speed up play.
4. Limiting discs would increase disc sales!

Is there really a problem that a disc limitation rule is going to solve? In my opinion, rules should have a defined and desirable purpose and be designed to meet that purpose and, if not effective in doing so, eliminated.

As to the offered reasons:

1. Who cares what golf does regarding clubs, disc golf does not have clubs.
2. I lost my last tournament to a guy carrying 3 Teebirds and a putter, I had about 20 discs.
3. People who can't decide what disc to throw would have the same issue if they only had a Nuke OS and an understable putter. Okay, that is an exaggeration, , but the indecisiveness of people with a lot of discs is not because of the number of discs, rather it is most often because of their cluelessness about what different discs do. I sometimes play with a guy who carries 12 overstable, high speed drivers and a putter. He throws 150 feet on a good day. He can never decide what to throw and, after poring through his bag, pulls out the same Nuke and throws it on 80% of his throws. Frustrating? Why yes it is. Limiting him to only 5 Nukes and a putter isn't going to speed him up one bit. But, if I'm wrong, and limiting discs would speed up play, then I'd gladly support an effective rule. The problem is that I don't think any number above 5 or so discs is going to be effective at speeding up play, and even then, it probably won't speed up play by much.
4. This one is just stupid.

 

[DavidSauls]

Any potential benefits of a disc limit would be extremely minor. Mostly involving a slight pace of play advantage as players can make disc choices more quickly.

If the thought was to make players demonstrate mastery of their throwing skills, instead of master of equipment, or at least to a greater degree, it would require a much smaller bag than 13. Go with 5-7; then you'd see how many different things a talented person can do with the same disc; and there'd be much more pressure to stay out of the water.

But to whose benefit? I'll bet that most players don't want it, and doubt spectators, such as they are, would care much either.

I don't see much constituency for bag limits. Sometimes it's better to acknowledge that we're not golf, that our game is different, and rules that have value in golf, don't have value to us.

 

[DavidSauls]

* I was typing as Doof was, and he beat me to the post, and point, on much of that.

 

[mojorooks]

the OP did title the thread as '13 disc bag limit'. maybe he feels we should all carry 13 bags of discs. Fitness level would definitely get factored in. Or he's a big advocate for caddies.

 

[mittbull]

the OP did title the thread as '13 disc bag limit'. maybe he feels we should all carry 13 bags of discs. Fitness level would definitely get factored in. Or he's a big advocate for caddies.

He did clairfy on the first page that this should read 13 mold limit, not disc. So in regards to losing a disc to the water you could have two backup of each disc and fit his criteria, which in the end kind of defeats the purpose. As many others have mentioned, I tend to play better when limiting the number of discs I carry, my 13 disc bag would be:
Star Destroyer
Star Wraith
Champ Firebird
Sexton Firebird
Champ Road Runner (times 2, one seasoned, one newish)
MF Teebird 3
Glo-Flx Buzzz (times 2, one seasoned, one newish)
Opto Claymore
Lucid Suspect
Lucid Warden
Blend or Soft Warden depending on the weather/course

 

[Rumpled]

13 discs total, as many or as few molds as you want

Just to be clear.

 

[JuanA]

He did clairfy on the first page that this should read 13 mold limit, not disc.

But he did clarify a few posts down that it's any number of molds, but 13 total discs.

13 discs total, as many or as few molds as you want

I only carry a max of 12 anyway since my bag is small, but for my local courses it's often less than 9. Other than backups, I'm not skilled enough to benefit from carrying more than a dozen.

Champ Orc

Champ Leo3
Star TL (probably going G* TL3 for both of these eventually)
DX TeeBird

Champ Manta
Champ Mako3
KC Pro Roc
Star Roc X3
Star Caiman

Star Mirage
XT Bullfrog

A few things change when it gets windy like the addition of my Firebird and Champ Eagle. Not sure why the Eagle is so overstable for me, but it goes in when the wind picks up.

 

[PlasticMotif]

Soft Wizard
SS Wizard
Champ Gummy Rhyno
DX Roc
KC Roc
Champ Roc3
Icon Phenom
Icon Rival
Legend Rival
Champ Valkyrie
Champ Glow Thunderbird
Star Wraith
Star Wraith

 

[ru4por]

This has been discussed a million times. Emac had the perfect answer to why the ball golf comparison doesn't work. In ball golf you have to take your driver and throw it over a lake.hoping you don't lose it without having a back up.

I think PGA touring players have a ball limit per round. This would be a more accurate comparison for the OP proposal.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

I think PGA touring players have a ball limit per round. This would be a more accurate comparison for the OP proposal.

They may have, but I don't believe that's the case. In my experience, these fellows change to a new ball, during tournament, on average every 3 holes...however, they are not allowed to change balls for every shot, just between holes.

For those making the startling observation that disc golf is not golf, and why direct comparisons between the two 'do not work', you are technically correct, but you miss the point. The point would be to understand WHY such a rule exists in golf and evaluate this idea's applicability and play value for disc golf, which is this entire thread's point. Sometimes real world experiments are valuable in testing an idea's value and let's face it, they aren't going to institute a bag-limit at the USDGC this October...

My belief about this sport in particular is that most disc golfers' play, including mine, benefit from a reduced bag for several reasons. That would be my recommendation.

On a related note, I see no reason why 'speed limit' contests cannot exist. For example, a player may carry as many discs as they wish, but the discs must be limited to speed 5 and below, which would certainly separate the men from the boys...

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

The point would be to understand WHY such a rule exists in golf and evaluate this idea's applicability and play value for disc golf, which is this entire thread's point.

No such justification was offered by the OP. So it seems that the thread's "point" is a bit of a Rorschach test.

But, since you asked, "WHY" is there a club limitation in golf?

Here is an explanation that cites the three reasons cited by the USGA and the history behind the change. Those reasons were:

1) "De-skilling" the game, i.e., too many clubs make it too easy;
2) Worry that rich players who could afford more clubs would have an advantage; and,
3) Concern about the weight being borne by young caddies.

How does that apply to disc golf, if at all?

1) I guess this is open to argument, but because the difficulty of golf is incomparable to the relative ease of disc golf, among other things, I don't think a limitation of discs much higher than 7-8 is going to have any appreciable "de-skilling" effect. After that, you're just adding specialty discs anyway. Frankly, I doubt that a 14 club rule had much effect on golf either as hinted at in the article.

2) I guess I get this concern. I don't see this playing out IRL for those who compete in tournaments or anyone really. The cost of disc golf is so modest already that most people own many more discs than they can (or need to) carry.

3) Think about this one in relation to number two. The USGA was actually worried about competitive disadvantage of impoverished golfers who might not be able to afford more than 14 clubs, but not the disadvantage they would have by not being able to afford to hire a caddy! In any event, this doesn't apply to disc golf and probably didn't apply to golf for even a millisecond after the first golf bag cart was invented.

So what is the dog of a problem that is being wagged by the tail of a proffered disc limit rule?

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

1) I guess this is open to argument, but because the difficulty of golf is incomparable to the relative ease of disc golf, among other things, I don't think a limitation of discs much higher than 7-8 is going to have any appreciable "de-skilling" effect. After that, you're just adding specialty discs anyway. Frankly, I doubt that a 14 club rule had much effect on golf either as hinted at in the article.

I read this again and realized that I worded it so horribly that it doesn't really make sense. What I was trying to say is that I don't think that carrying more than about 7-8 discs really makes disc golf much easier. Certainly 6 can make it easier than three, two can make it much easier than just one, but the higher you go, the less ease you add per disc such a limit set at 14 or 18 might as well be no limit at all from the standpoint of limiting the "de-skilling" of the game. Anyway, the exact limit is certainly arguable, but once you have a putter, 2-3 mids a couple of fairway drivers and couple of distance drivers, you pretty much have what you are going to use 90% of the time in my experience. YMMV.

 

[armiller]

My bag holds 12-13 discs (Lat 64 Easy Go). Currently bagging:

Hard Pure
Star Aviar
Star Mako3
Champ Mako3
ESP Buzz
Opto Claymore
Big Z Zombee
Pro Valkyrie
Star Valkyrie
Gold Maul
Opto Maul
Recycled Maul

#13 varies depending on course and conditions. It's either a Pro Thunderbird, a Tourney Hatchet or Underworld. I'm working on using less molds and varying the plastics for my main discs. I don't throw with much power... excepting that fact helped my game. I used to bag a Star Wraith but gave it to a buddy b/c he crushes with it.

Another nice >5 year thread bump! It definitely depends on the course, but this would work for many courses.

Plasma Ion
Zone
DX Polecat

Z Buzzz
Z Comet

Star Teebird
Champ Leo3
Z Undertaker
Big Z Vulture
Champ Firebird

Star Beast
ESP Surge
Champ Katana

Question: what is golf's policy for the 14 club thing if you break or lose a club during a round?

 

[DavidSauls]

Question: what is golf's policy for the 14 club thing if you break or lose a club during a round?

Or throw 3 in the water, on the same hole.....