2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread

[riltim]

I don't know about Innova's ability to buy "quality" plastic. I don't even know anything about plastic. I do know that 52.5 million in revenue is very very little compared to other lines of manufacturing.

The 1000th ranked company by Fortune made 1.8 Billion in revenue last year. Obviously no one expected a disc golf company to be on this list but you can see that apart from the top dawgs Walmart (500 Billion... :gross the bottom of the list 900-1000 are much closer together. You could extrapolate that by the time you got down to 52.5 million there would be thousands of companies of a similar size, probably tens of thousands. http://fortune.com/fortune500/list

Infinite discs posted a blog awhile back that said they sold 10 times as many discs in 2016 as they did when they first started. In that blog they posted a percentage of their sales by brand. It appears to be at least a fairly good gauge of market share.

https://infinitediscs.com/blog/disc-golf-sales-trends-by-brand/

They didn't post how many discs they sold or what the average price was. Can't blame them for that. Same reason the disc golf companies aren't posting their earnings online.

Speculate away!

I'm guessing you don't have much experience in manufacturing. I have vendors fighting tooth and nail to get $100k worth of annual sales out of us. If you're buying $2-3 million dollars worth of plastic pellets annually from someone they're going to give you everything you want and then some

 

[brutalbrutus]

They'd have to sell 1,430 discs a day at $10 a piece or 33 baskets a day at $425.

Think about all the AM tourneys around the country that give out plastic. I'd have to imagine they have at least a couple thousand discs for tourneys pretty much every weekend during the busy months.


As far as the inconsistencies, I think some, or maybe even a lot, of that comes from molding discs on days with varied barometric pressure and humidity.

 

[riltim]

Innova dominating disc golf specialty stores isn't even the whole story. There are lots of stores that only carry Innova (Dicks, Walmart, Big-5 etc).

Every one of those stores probably makes more money on socks annually than they do for discs.

Owler has Merrell shoes at $31.1 Million dollars annually and its a household name. Hell they have their own outlet stores their so huge. No way in the world Innova is pushing that much plastic.

 

[DiscNinja33]

I'm guessing you don't have much experience in manufacturing. I have vendors fighting tooth and nail to get $100k worth of annual sales out of us. If you're buying $2-3 million dollars worth of plastic pellets annually from someone they're going to give you everything you want and then some

Also, it's possibly less about the quality of plastic and more about how many environmental factors affect what the plastic will be like. Injection molding is extremely susceptible to this and is a big reason you see inconsistencies across brands. The amount of time you let the discs cool before ejecting them also plays a role and the less time they're cooling, the more discs you can mold/sell.

 

[DiscNinja33]

Every one of those stores probably makes more money on socks annually than they do for discs.



Owler has Merrell shoes at $31.1 Million dollars annually and its a household name. Hell they have their own outlet stores their so huge. No way in the world Innova is pushing that much plastic.

Merrill is a household name for some people. I know it because I hike and play disc golf. Before I did those things, never knew what it was. I'd assume a lot of people have no clue what it is.

 

[broomerang]

I'm guessing you don't have much experience in manufacturing. I have vendors fighting tooth and nail to get $100k worth of annual sales out of us. If you're buying $2-3 million dollars worth of plastic pellets annually from someone they're going to give you everything you want and then some

That's exactly how sales channels are designed. If you didn't feel like your money mattered to the company you're buying from you would choose their competitor that made you feel special. Sales guys act like every deal is equally important, it's their job and their compensation is tied directly to the sale. It's why your AT&T rep acts like your single internet connection and phone lines are important but the support team couldn't care less. Your money isn't worth anything compared to the real big fish in AT&Ts basket.

I find it hard to believe that anyone posting here has any idea what a privately held company is worth. I have worked for a small (100 employee) privately held company for ~20 years and I have no clue what the company is actually worth.

You are in charge of deciding of how much money is being spent in your division but you don't know how much revenue the company makes? Smells fishy to me.

Every one of those stores probably makes more money on socks annually than they do for discs.

Owler has Merrell shoes at $31.1 Million dollars annually and its a household name. Hell they have their own outlet stores their so huge. No way in the world Innova is pushing that much plastic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrell_(company)

In 1997, Karhu sold Merrell to Wolverine World Wide, a large footwear corporation which manufactured Hush Puppies shoes and Wolverine brand boots. In the year of the Wolverine acquisition, Merrell sales volume totaled $23 million.

Seems about right to me.

 

[riltim]

According to Owler annual sales:

Merrell is $31.1 Million
Hydroflask is 10.1 Million
Nalgene is 2.7 Million

Anyone who thinks Innova moves more product than the three of these companies combined is delusional. Almost every person I know who does some sort of outdoor activity owns at product from all of the above companies. Hikers, Climbers, Cyclist, Boy Scouts, Etc.

 

[riltim]

You are in charge of deciding of how much money is being spent in your division but you don't know how much revenue the company makes? Smells fishy to me.

You think negotiating prices for electrical components gets me a seat at the monthly board of directors meeting?

 

[brutalbrutus]

Most people don't have a closet/trunk/backseat piled up with a couple dozen/hundred hydroflasks…

 

[riltim]

That's exactly how sales channels are designed. If you didn't feel like your money mattered to the company you're buying from you would choose their competitor that made you feel special. Sales guys act like every deal is equally important, it's their job and their compensation is tied directly to the sale. It's why your AT&T rep acts like your single internet connection and phone lines are important but the support team couldn't care less. Your money isn't worth anything compared to the real big fish in AT&Ts basket.

You're comparing a $150/month cell phone bill to $2-3 million dollar annual supplier contract. Maybe the "big fish" in plastic distribution would turn down that contract but there are plenty of mid level distributors that would jump at that contract. Maybe help them produce some DX plastic that you couldn't slice with your fingernail.

 

[riltim]

Most people don't have a closet/trunk/backseat piled up with a couple dozen/hundred hydroflasks…

Very true. But most people don't even know what disc golf is.

 

[ChefKoolaid]

Most people don't have a closet/trunk/backseat piled up with a couple dozen/hundred hydroflasks…

Maybe not a hundred but I do have a collection of bottles that is larger than I'd like to admit lol.

 

[riltim]

If the Owler sales numbers are true why aren't companies like Merrell, Hydroflask, and Nalgene dumping money into sponsoring disc golf players and NT events. They're the perfect market for them and they could ride the coat tails of Innovas massive profits.

 

[DiscNinja33]

Maybe not a hundred but I do have a collection of bottles that is larger than I'd like to admit lol.

I'd like to see an album of this water bottle collection.

 

[DiscJunkie]

According to Owler annual sales:

Merrell is $31.1 Million
Hydroflask is 10.1 Million
Nalgene is 2.7 Million

Anyone who thinks Innova moves more product than the three of these companies combined is delusional. Almost every person I know who does some sort of outdoor activity owns at product from all of the above companies. Hikers, Climbers, Cyclist, Boy Scouts, Etc.

According to Wikipedia:
The company (Merrell) recorded total sales of footwear and clothing of nearly $500 million in 2010.
Now the Internet is not an infallible source of information, but...
Obviously, one of these sources is waaaaay off.

 

[broomerang]

If the Owler sales numbers are true why aren't companies like Merrell, Hydroflask, and Nalgene dumping money into sponsoring disc golf players and NT events. They're the perfect market for them and they could ride the coat tails of Innovas massive profits.

Some of their competitors do sponsor events. There is so many flaws to your logic here. Many disc golfers already own those products, therefore the consumer market is already saturated. Those companies probably don't believe it would be a good return compared to there other marketing dollars.

You're comparing a $150/month cell phone bill to $2-3 million dollar annual supplier contract. Maybe the "big fish" in plastic distribution would turn down that contract but there are plenty of mid level distributors that would jump at that contract. Maybe help them produce some DX plastic that you couldn't slice with your fingernail.

cell phone? HAHA no. I'm talking about your companies phone service and data circuits. I was being a bit flippant I'll admit but you're absolutely incorrect that a company that makes 52.5 million in revenue is "large" in the manufacturing business.

An apples to pears comparison: Callaway 1.05 billion in revenue.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ely/financials

Maybe someone with experience in injection molding could contribute more appropriate details.

You think negotiating prices for electrical components gets me a seat at the monthly board of directors meeting?

That has nothing to do with knowing how much revenue your company makes every year. You're hurting your own credibility with every post.

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

According to Owler annual sales:

Merrell is $31.1 Million
Hydroflask is 10.1 Million
Nalgene is 2.7 Million

.

I don't know much about Hydroflask, but the numbers for Merrell and Nalgene seem WAY low.

As for Innova, I suspect in the last ten years or so, they have gone from being a nicely profitable company, to being an extremely profitable company. If they think McBeth is worth it, they'll easily match or exceed any other offer.

 

[broomerang]

Maybe the "big fish" in plastic distribution would turn down that contract but there are plenty of mid level distributors that would jump at that contract. Maybe help them produce some DX plastic that you couldn't slice with your fingernail.

Sounds like your holding an axe and I believe I hear a grinder.

Perhaps Innova and many of their customers do not see those features of DX being a flaw.

 

[riltim]

Despite the flawed Owler statistics there are plenty of opportunities for companies like Discraft to grow without spending their own money. It wouldn't be that hard for them to show investors that there is potential to grow the disc golf side of the business. Only takes a handful of people that are willing to put $30-50k up for the potential into turning it into $500k.

 

[riltim]

According to Wikipedia:
The company (Merrell) recorded total sales of footwear and clothing of nearly $500 million in 2010.
Now the Internet is not an infallible source of information, but...
Obviously, one of these sources is waaaaay off.

I'm only quoting Owler, who was saying Merrell has an annual sale of $31.1 Million and Innova has an annual sale of $52 Million. It's not accurate an a BS source.