Adding a disc to the bag after a tourney round starts?

[7ontheline]

I was told by another player in my group at this weekends PDGA tourney that I couldn't use a disc I spaced during warm up since it wasn't in my bag when the round began. I asked the TD if it was legal and he said he couldn't find a rule that said I couldn't. What's the rule if there is one and thanks:\

 

[sonny]

Absolutely legal.

I once had a tree puncture a DX Valkyrie two holes into a tournament. At the time I was playing with only four discs and my card was courteous enough to allow me to run back to my car for a new one. I've also seen players stopping by the fly-mart mid round to buy a new disc they immediately began using. (after marking it of course.

Related to this, it is also legal to borrow a fellow competitors disc for a throw if the other player is agreeable.

 

[7ontheline]

Related to this, it is also legal to borrow a fellow competitors disc for a throw if the other player is agreeable.

Is there a rule you could point to that would indicate this is legal or are you saying its legal since there is no specific rule saying you can't borrow, buy, or retrieve a disc mid round?

 

[bradharris]

I was told by another player in my group at this weekends PDGA tourney that I couldn't use a disc I spaced during warm up since it wasn't in my bag when the round began. I asked the TD if it was legal and he said he couldn't find a rule that said I couldn't. What's the rule if there is one and thanks:\

Here are the rules governing what discs can and can't be used.

Any disc that meet the standards set forth in that section are legal for use in PDGA play. Any claims about additional restrictions not set forth in that section are likely made up rules that the person heard from someone else (this is a very common example of that).

 

[7ontheline]

Here are the rules governing what discs can and can't be used.

Any disc that meet the standards set forth in that section are legal for use in PDGA play. Any claims about additional restrictions not set forth in that section are likely made up rules that the person heard from someone else (this is a very common example of that).

Ouch.

801.02 D - A disc that is questioned by another player or an official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director.

I guess I could have gone through the appeal process since after calling the Director he didn't know off the top of his head if I would have been throwing an illegal disc... until later when he told me no rule was found to disallow my misplaced disc. That sucks for the group if we have to wait until the TD researched the situation or asked us to stand down and allow others to play through until he could arrive at an answer especially if the player calling 'illegal' is wrong :thmbdown:

Could I call a courtesy violation warning on him for making up a rule (auditory distraction)and thus making/delaying flow of play and f'ing with my head:doh:

 

[biscoe]

Ouch.

801.02 D - A disc that is questioned by another player or an official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director.

I guess I could have gone through the appeal process since after calling the Director he didn't know off the top of his head if I would have been throwing an illegal disc... until later when he told me no rule was found to disallow my misplaced disc. That sucks for the group if we have to wait until the TD researched the situation or asked us to stand down and allow others to play through until he could arrive at an answer especially if the player calling 'illegal' is wrong :thmbdown:

Could I call a courtesy violation warning on him for making up a rule (auditory distraction)and thus making/delaying flow of play and f'ing with my head:doh:

You had no reason to have to wait on the td as there is no rule under which your disc was possibly illegal. The waiting on the td part is when discs are questionably illegal under actual rules (weight, etc). Your appropriate response to the questioning player was "under what rule?- you are full of it and don't know what you are talking about unless you can show me in the rulebook or the digital rulebook on your phone". It is as if he had called your disc illegal because it is was red (or whatever color).

 

[7ontheline]

You had no reason to have to wait on the td as there is no rule under which your disc was possibly illegal. The waiting on the td part is when discs are questionably illegal under actual rules (weight, etc). Your appropriate response to the questioning player was "under what rule?- you are full of it and don't know what you are talking about unless you can show me in the rulebook or the digital rulebook on your phone". It is as if he had called your disc illegal because it is was red (or whatever color).

I follow what you're saying but I'm not a PDGA member and don't have a rulebook. The player in question is a sponsored member so I ASSUMED he maybe correct or at least I wasn't comfortable possibly taking the chance of getting stroked. I called the TD hoping for an answer but I didn't get one until later so bad on me for not spending the time looking online in the sun with my 4s micro phone looking for a rule that apparently wasn't there. That would have taken a while and I wasn't prepared to screw up the lead cards mojo.

Maybe next time, in a pressure situation like that player has to make a putt to win or tie I should call an illegal disc on his putter claiming it might be overweight. Legal or no... DB for sure but legal:\

 

[JC17393]

I follow what you're saying but I'm not a PDGA member and don't have a rulebook. The player in question is a sponsored member so I ASSUMED he maybe correct or at least I wasn't comfortable possibly taking the chance of getting stroked. I called the TD hoping for an answer but I didn't get one until later so bad on me for not spending the time looking online in the sun with my 4s micro phone looking for a rule that apparently wasn't there. That would have taken a while and I wasn't prepared to screw up the lead cards mojo.

You don't need to have a rule book of your own (or access to one online) to make another player provide the rule under which he's trying to restrict/penalize you. Especially if they're a PDGA member since they should have a rule book of their own.

If they're going to call a semi-obscure rule (which I'd define as anything that a casual tournament player like yourself might not be aware of), it's on them to provide the proof that the rule exists as they understand it. If they can't, you shouldn't let them try to pull one over on you.

Maybe next time, in a pressure situation like that player has to make a putt to win or tie I should call an illegal disc on his putter claiming it might be overweight. Legal or no... DB for sure but legal:\

Were I the player you tried that on, I'd go ahead and make my putt anyway. Then let the TD decide whether or not to penalize me the two throws an illegal disc would cost me. If it's deemed legal, I'd could ask the TD to DQ you for unsportsmanlike actions. Doubt the DQ would come, but hey, one good turn deserves another, right?

 

[7ontheline]

You don't need to have a rule book of your own (or access to one online) to make another player provide the rule under which he's trying to restrict/penalize you. Especially if they're a PDGA member since they should have a rule book of their own.

If they're going to call a semi-obscure rule (which I'd define as anything that a casual tournament player like yourself might not be aware of), it's on them to provide the proof that the rule exists as they understand it. If they can't, you shouldn't let them try to pull one over on you.



Were I the player you tried that on, I'd go ahead and make my putt anyway. Then let the TD decide whether or not to penalize me the two throws an illegal disc would cost me. If it's deemed legal, I'd could ask the TD to DQ you for unsportsmanlike actions. Doubt the DQ would come, but hey, one good turn deserves another, right?

If for example, I didn't know the dog bite that went through the flight plate was illegal and took your advice of threw it anyway, when the TD said it was illegal I would have been penalized. So ignoring his "semi-obscure" rule because he can't produce the rule isn't going to hold water as to whether I ultimately get penalized, kind of like ignorance of the law is no excuse. Regardless, it got me thinking of something other than my next shot and that doesn't see fair especially if its legal to apply gamesmanship without consequences. Batter, batter, swing... miss

Regarding your unsportsmanship like actions, that's the point I was asking... if its unsportsmanship like wouldn't that fall under courtesy violation? It did put the question in my head right or wrong if I should use that disc or not. I Play with Confidence, well, most of the time.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

I'd like to assume that he truly thought it was a rule and he was correct. If not, and he was trying to game you, then he's a douche.
That said, even if it was the latter, you can choose to be the bigger person.

 

[7ontheline]

I'd like to assume that he truly thought it was a rule and he was correct. If not, and he was trying to game you, then he's a douche.
That said, even if it was the latter, you can choose to be the bigger person.

I think he thought it was a rule and I took it without complaint or proof of the rule and said nothing to him later after the TD found nothing making the disc illegal. After all, we all make mistakes perhaps the TD made a mistake when he couldn't find an instance making said disc illegal, thus this thread.

As a side note, unfortunately, there are some folks around here that have a win at all costs attitude and it would be nice to know in the future if they can be warned for falsely calling rules violation. Anyway, there's no doubt it was a distraction, again thus the thread

Hey, if I can't sport bitch to my virtual friends who can I sport bitch too

 

[Broken Shoulder]

To your last sentence...totally fair. This would be the forum to do so.

Personally, I absolutely love beating those guys that take it way too seriously or talk too much. But, I love beating them silently, with my play.I want that opponent to know that nothing they're doing is affecting me, at all, and I'm singularly focused on playing well. No reaction at all is what affects them the most.

I just can't stoop to their level. It wouldn't sit well with me.
I realize I'm off in hypotheticals here, so I apologize for that.

I'd say, going forward, procure a rule book and learn it, and ask people to prove what they're calling in these cases.

 

[JC17393]

As a side note, unfortunately, there are some folks around here that have a win at all costs attitude and it would be nice to know in the future if they can be warned for falsely calling rules violation. Anyway, there's no doubt it was a distraction, again thus the thread

I alluded to it in my earlier post, but falsely calling rules violations is arguably unsportsmanlike behavior (specifically 3.3.B.5 of the Competition Manual). I think intentionally misapplying or making up rules could be construed as a "willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play".

As a TD, if a player came to me and reported a player doing such a thing, I'd consider DQ. To be clear, it would have to be repeated instances of such behavior, not just a single incident of misquoting or misunderstanding a rule/non-rule. That can happen from time to time, but someone who is habitually trying to gain advantage or play head games like that needs to be called out for it and possibly face consequences for those actions.

I also have to wonder where the rest of the group falls in this, since they have a part to play as well. It's not 100% on the person trying to make the call or the person being called to figure things out. The rest of the group should be involved, too. You'd hope that in a tournament group of 3-5 players, someone would either have the rule book or quick access to it through their phone. There has to be an intermediary step between the initial he-said, he-said, and letting the TD make a ruling.

 

[netposer]

I always tell players to get familiar with the rules. Not for them to call out other players but mainly for protection.

Saw one player tell another that he could not use the same disc he just threw. We all know it's done all the time (putters/putting). It was a parking deck hole (Urban DG) where the parking deck is 30 or so feet from tee. If you miss getting it into the deck you re-tee throwing 2. Most folks would walk the 30 feet, grab the same disc and try again. Too bad the guy doesn't know the rules and had to find another "thumber" disc in his bag. The only rule I can see being called is a 30 second rule or you walking in front of the tee while others are teeing off.

Goes to show how important knowing the rules to protect yourself.

 

[da Crippler]

I think he was just trying to get inside your head. Sounds like it worked.:\

 

[netposer]

I think he was just trying to get inside your head. Sounds like it worked.:\

Wasn't me. If it were me I would have walked over, picked up my disc and tee'd off.

 

[Consult20]

I was told by another player in my group at this weekends PDGA tourney that I couldn't use a disc I spaced during warm up since it wasn't in my bag when the round began. I asked the TD if it was legal and he said he couldn't find a rule that said I couldn't. What's the rule if there is one and thanks:\

So did you actually go to your car and get the disc, without holding up the card? Or did he stop you by saying it was illegal? Just trying to determine the sequence of events.

 

[Allurex]

This is one of those phantom rules that somehow like 80% of disc golfers believe, but is not, and never has been, an actual rule.

As long at it's within a reasonable amount of time, like the parking lot is near one of the tees so you can grab it when nearby, there's no reason why you can't use it. Hell, you could grab a completely different bag with all new discs in it if you want. One set of discs for the front 9, another set for the back.

 

[Dan Ensor]

People believe it because it's a real rule in the PGA. I think they're just like "yeah, I heard that rule somewhere else".

 

[tbird888]

Someone on your card had to have a phone with a data plan. Pull up the rulebook online and ask him to show you the rule.