Advice on bag makeup

[TheSecondZ]

I started playing disc golf about 2 months ago but have been able to build a pretty decent bag so far by getting good deals from friends or Ebay. I'm really trying to keep the number of discs under 10 while still having enough options. Any advice or feedback on my setup would be helpful!


Putters:
1. Innova Champion Aviar 173g (old, gummy) - Main putting putter, but starting to get understable from use and is difficult to putt in the wind. I'm considering replacing with a slightly more overstable putter that I can always use for putting even in wind (something like a Discraft Luna), and just using this Aviar for approach shots.
2. Discraft Z Zone 174g (McBeth, slight puddle top) - Overstable for approach shots, possibly putting in high winds

I did get a Tour Series Aviar and XT Nova in a package. I was considering selling these off, but maybe the Tour Series Aviar could be that all-in-one putting putter?


Mid-ranges:
3. Innova Star Mako3 175g - main neutral/stable mid
4. Innova PFN Star Shark 179g - more overstable mid that I can also rip pretty hard
5. Discraft Z Archer 175g - understable mid. Apparently used to be considered fairway driver, but now is rated speed 5 mid.


Fairway drivers:
6. Discraft Titanium Swirl Stalker 175g (Paige Pierce 2020 Ledgestone) - this is in the mail, but I've heard it's more like a 6 speed than 7 speed, and Ti is on the overstable side.
7. Considering a Discraft Undertaker or Innova Thunderbird. I think an ESP or Big Z Undertaker might be nice and straight for me.

I'm getting rid of an Innova Star TL (straighter finishing Teebird) since it just doesn't seem to work for me.


Distance drivers:
8. Innova Star Wraith 175g
9. Innova Star Shryke 172g

I also have an old and very beat-up Innova DX Beast 169g that can function as a roller.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

I'd say, first of all, great goal to stay to 10 or less.

I think you are on the right track, it's hard to recommend discs because everyone likes things a little different. Here is what I would put together for you though:
Putters:
Tour aviar- ALL putts. Only putt with this to get your putting dialed.
Champ aviar- approach
Zone- approach

Mids:
Mako3 OR Archer- understable and straight shots
Shark- straight to overstable shots

Drivers:
Stalker: stable/overstable workhorse
Some neutral to understable fairway. Your other options seem redundant with the stalker, so maybe a hatchet/underworld/ something along those lines to compliment it, depending on what size rim you like and how they act for you.

Distance drivers:
Steer clear of those for now. If you want to mess around with them put one or the other in for a round, but generally it's unlikely you will get the flight you want from them, and they won't go appreciably farther than your fairways for a little bit. You could treat something like a Valkyrie as your distance driver, they can go plenty far.

Edit: I should add my reasoning here. I've been playing for years, and have too many discs, and bag too many discs. Most rounds I throw a rhyno, my aviars for putting, some form of a Roc, and an eagle. Pretty much that's it. I score better when I carry less. OS/US up to fairways, then a neutral speed 9 and a Firebird is about all I tend to need for 90% of my rounds. Carrying less makes you focus on you and your game instead of what to throw.

 

[TheSecondZ]

Thanks for the response! I just have a couple questions/clarifications.

For putters, do you think the Tour Series Aviar would fill that role of putter that's stable enough to putt with in all conditions, but also fairly straight in calm? It's still in the mail, so I haven't had a chance to test it yet. Have you tried the Luna, or do you know how they compare?

I should've clarified that even though I'm new to disc golf, I've been playing ultimate frisbee for a decade. I still have a lot to improve with my disc golf form, but I'm able to get a decent amount of more distance from the Wraith (375) compared to the TL (325). My goal is to eventually get the Wraith to 400. I just got the Shryke (haven't tested it yet), but hoping it'll be 25-50 feet more than the Wraith.

For fairway/control drivers, do you think it's necessary to have different speed discs to bridge between mids and distance drivers? For example, a 7 and 9 speed to bridge between speed 5 mids and speed 11 drivers.Or do you think it's better to just have one understable and one overstable, even if they're both about the same speed?


I agree though that I could make do by pretty much playing with just 5 discs: 1 putter, 2-3 mids, and 1-2 driver(s).

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

Tour series aviars are a little more stable than classic aviars if I recall. I have putted with classics for years in all wind conditions. Putting in the wind is tough regardless, but I think familiarity and practice with a particular putter for everything is better than switching putters and adding that additional aspect of a different feel to a tough putt. It's my preference. I haven't tried a Luna, and probably won't. I picked a good feeling putter and just rolled with it, never felt the need to try anything different for more than messing around with in the yard.

You throw farther than me. I'm maxing out at 340-350 on my best days. On those days I can throw an eagle 330-340, and a beat wraith 340-350. I decided the 10' doesn't warrant the slot ultimately, so I put the distance drivers away. I will carry a scorpius if I know the course has some long forehand lines, but I'm hitting consistent 350-375 with the scorp forehand, and not that backhand. If you are getting a solid 50' more with a distance driver, that probably warrants a slot. Pick whichever you like better if they are similar lines, or both of you can get different lines from them.

Bridging the gap, I think is a matter of personal preference. I don't feel the need for 7 and 9 speed. They haven't really been appreciably different slots for me over the years, and I just really like eagles, so I throw those. I used to throw PDs (9 speed) in the same slot, with similar results. With your additional throwing superiority to mine, you might find the 9s hit 350' or so easier, and depending on what your courses are like, you might want that shot. Probably don't need to bag both for now though, but if it tickles your fancy go right ahead.

I play in the woods a lot, so my experience is on courses where a 250-300' placement shot is often better than a 300+ foot power shot. For this reason I have always focused on placement golf over power golf. There are times when another 30' of distance would be great, but it would really still be an approach shot left and a putt. If you play courses where the extra 30' means no upshot, then go for the distance by all means.

 

[TheSecondZ]

Sounds good. I'll test out the Tour Series Aviar, and if I don't like it, I'll just go back to the old Champion Aviar from before for all putts.

I think I will also do a Wraith vs. Shryke as well as a Stalker vs. Undertaker shootout to see if there will be enough distance gapping, or if they're redundant.

Most of the holes that I play in this area are about 300 feet or less, so I end up using mostly mid-ranges and putters anyway like you said.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Advice on bag makeup

I use Clinique on my bag.
Cover Girl wasn't getting the job done. :\

 

[etdefender19]

Advice on bag makeup

I use Clinique on my bag.
Cover Girl wasn't getting the job done. :\

This was similar to the answer I imagined as I clicked on this thread

 

[TheSecondZ]

Advice on bag makeup

I use Clinique on my bag.
Cover Girl wasn't getting the job done. :\

Lol that's a fair point

 

[autocrosscrx]

I putt Classic Aviars. I've messed around with putting a P2 in the wind, but honestly, haven't seen much in the way of a positive difference.

If I were you and keeping the 10 disc limit, I'd throw the Champ Aviar as an approach disk, add a putting putter, and ditch the Mako (leaving a stable/overstable mid and an understable mid). If I really loved the Mako, I'd ditch one of the distance drivers or the utility disc.

 

[JuanA]

I like being a single digit discer who only carries 9 discs (although now it's 10). It forces me to justify every disc in my bag.

I'll try not to comment on specific discs that you carry, but urge you to make sure you have the shots you want to make covered.

For example, I break my small bag into short, medium and long shots. In each group I like to have an understable shot, a neutral shot and an overstable shot. Sure, I may not have every nuance of disc flight covered, but that forces me to work with the disc I have for that shot and learn how to make it do what I want. If I can't, I look for a replacement.

That being said, if I had your bag I think I would really miss having a less stable driver.

 

[TheSecondZ]

I putt Classic Aviars. I've messed around with putting a P2 in the wind, but honestly, haven't seen much in the way of a positive difference.

If I were you and keeping the 10 disc limit, I'd throw the Champ Aviar as an approach disk, add a putting putter, and ditch the Mako (leaving a stable/overstable mid and an understable mid). If I really loved the Mako, I'd ditch one of the distance drivers or the utility disc.

This all makes sense. I'll test the Tour Series Aviar as a strictly putting putter, and then I'll have the Champ Aviar and Z Zone as understable and overstable approach putters.

I do really like having 3 mid-ranges, since I lean on them more heavily than drivers. The Mako3 is great now for straight shots, but I think as it wears more, it may become too understable. The Star Shark may end up being my straight disc, and I'd remove the Mako3. I found a deal today on a lightly used max weight 180g Champ Roc3, so that will likely fill the overstable slot.

For drivers, I'm interested to see if the Star Shryke gives me appreciably more distance than the Star Wraith. If not, I'll remove one of them. Right now, I'm kind of taking the approach of having neutral/stable drivers at speed 7, 9, 11, and 13, and adjusting the angle I put on the disc. It sounds like it would be unnecessary to have that many different speeds, plus probably less versatile if they all have the same straight flight. I may end up moving to just 3 drivers: max distance neutral driver (hopefully the Shryke) and 2 fairway drivers, one overstable and one understable.

That would get me to 3 putters, 3 mids, 3 distance/fairway drivers.

 

[TheSecondZ]

I like being a single digit discer who only carries 9 discs (although now it's 10). It forces me to justify every disc in my bag.

I'll try not to comment on specific discs that you carry, but urge you to make sure you have the shots you want to make covered.

For example, I break my small bag into short, medium and long shots. In each group I like to have an understable shot, a neutral shot and an overstable shot. Sure, I may not have every nuance of disc flight covered, but that forces me to work with the disc I have for that shot and learn how to make it do what I want. If I can't, I look for a replacement.

That being said, if I had your bag I think I would really miss having a less stable driver.

I've taken the understable/neutral/overstable approach for my putters and mid-ranges, but I think you're right about needing that for drivers too. Right now I've just been getting mostly neutral drivers in different speeds and trying to change the angle that I throw them.

In terms of an understable driver, would you recommend just trying to use the super beat-up DX Beast? Or something else like a Sidewinder/Roadrunner/Mamba from Innova or a Heat/Avenger SS/Thrasher from Discraft? Those are the two brands I know the best, but I don't have any particular brand loyalty.

 

[JuanA]

In terms of an understable driver, would you recommend just trying to use the super beat-up DX Beast? Or something else like a Sidewinder/Roadrunner/Mamba from Innova or a Heat/Avenger SS/Thrasher from Discraft? Those are the two brands I know the best, but I don't have any particular brand loyalty.

Personally I'm a big Sidewinder fan, but others will probably chime in as well.

 

[TheSecondZ]

Personally I'm a big Sidewinder fan, but others will probably chime in as well.

I previously tried a Champ Monarch, and it was absolutely awful. The rim was weirdly shaped, and I think I may have gone down too much in weight to 160g.

Do you think a beat in Big Z Undertaker might be understable enough? I've heard the Undertaker is straight to slightly understable, especially in the Big Z plastic.

 

[JuanA]

I previously tried a Champ Monarch, and it was absolutely awful. The rim was weirdly shaped, and I think I may have gone down too much in weight to 160g.

Do you think a beat in Big Z Undertaker might be understable enough? I've heard the Undertaker is straight to slightly understable, especially in the Big Z plastic.

I'm not up to speed on Discraft. Just this morning I had to get help in the Comet thread

 

[autocrosscrx]

This all makes sense. I'll test the Tour Series Aviar as a strictly putting putter, and then I'll have the Champ Aviar and Z Zone as understable and overstable approach putters.

I do really like having 3 mid-ranges, since I lean on them more heavily than drivers. The Mako3 is great now for straight shots, but I think as it wears more, it may become too understable. The Star Shark may end up being my straight disc, and I'd remove the Mako3. I found a deal today on a lightly used max weight 180g Champ Roc3, so that will likely fill the overstable slot.

For drivers, I'm interested to see if the Star Shryke gives me appreciably more distance than the Star Wraith. If not, I'll remove one of them. Right now, I'm kind of taking the approach of having neutral/stable drivers at speed 7, 9, 11, and 13, and adjusting the angle I put on the disc. It sounds like it would be unnecessary to have that many different speeds, plus probably less versatile if they all have the same straight flight. I may end up moving to just 3 drivers: max distance neutral driver (hopefully the Shryke) and 2 fairway drivers, one overstable and one understable.

That would get me to 3 putters, 3 mids, 3 distance/fairway drivers.

I like your proposed mid setup. I really like Rocs and specifically cycling DX Rocs, but mine setup isn't too different.

As far as understable drivers, I've carried DX Beasts the last few months. I don't turn and burn them, but they start to want to take off to the right on you after some wear. After a month or two, I have to get selective about when I throw them. I only throw them for tunnel shots, uphill shots, and where I can get away with missing way right.

The Z Heat is fantastic. It is one of my all time favorite discs. They fly like a fresh DX Beast, but they retain the flight.

I found a Star Roadrunner and have thrown it some. It seems a little too sensitive to angle for my tastes.

Another suggestion is to really beat up a Wraith or Destroyer.

 

[TheSecondZ]

I like your proposed mid setup. I really like Rocs and specifically cycling DX Rocs, but mine setup isn't too different.

As far as understable drivers, I've carried DX Beasts the last few months. I don't turn and burn them, but they start to want to take off to the right on you after some wear. After a month or two, I have to get selective about when I throw them. I only throw them for tunnel shots, uphill shots, and where I can get away with missing way right.

The Z Heat is fantastic. It is one of my all time favorite discs. They fly like a fresh DX Beast, but they retain the flight.

I found a Star Roadrunner and have thrown it some. It seems a little too sensitive to angle for my tastes.

Another suggestion is to really beat up a Wraith or Destroyer.

I've heard there are a lot of benefits to cycling the same molds for consistent feel in the hand, but I just personally don't want to spend that much money on discs. I figure I'd rather spend $15 on one disc with premium plastic (Star, Champion, Z) rather than going through two or three $10 discs of the cheaper plastics. Also, I'd prefer the discs to not change their flight characteristics much. This also would make it easier to replace a disc in the case that I lose one.

I may look into the Z Heat. I've heard Z plastic is about as durable as Champion, but I find the grip on the Z much better than Champion. This could just be due to different aging or different runs though. I'm picking up a Big Z Undertaker today. I've heard Big Z is slightly less stable and less durable than Z, but perhaps this could eventually work into an understable driver slot.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I've heard there are a lot of benefits to cycling the same molds for consistent feel in the hand, but I just personally don't want to spend that much money on discs. I figure I'd rather spend $15 on one disc with premium plastic (Star, Champion, Z) rather than going through two or three $10 discs of the cheaper plastics. Also, I'd prefer the discs to not change their flight characteristics much. This also would make it easier to replace a disc in the case that I lose one.

I may look into the Z Heat. I've heard Z plastic is about as durable as Champion, but I find the grip on the Z much better than Champion. This could just be due to different aging or different runs though. I'm picking up a Big Z Undertaker today. I've heard Big Z is slightly less stable and less durable than Z, but perhaps this could eventually work into an understable driver slot.

I hear you. I just happen to like the feel of DX plastic and seem to throw it better.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

I like cycling, but it's a bitch if you lose your beat turnover disc. I'm moving away from it personally to some extent.

As to making sure lines are covered, you may hear that developing a forehand can cover your turnover shots, and that's partially true. I do firmly believe in developing a strong forehand game, but it's partly because a forehand turnover is a different line than a backhand with an overstable disc, and sometimes that's the play.

 

[azplaya25]

I like cycling, but it's a bitch if you lose your beat turnover disc. I'm moving away from it personally to some extent.

As to making sure lines are covered, you may hear that developing a forehand can cover your turnover shots, and that's partially true. I do firmly believe in developing a strong forehand game, but it's partly because a forehand turnover is a different line than a backhand with an overstable disc, and sometimes that's the play.

Feel like this depends on the mold and also your proximity to a used disc shop. If you pick common molds(rocs, buzzz, firebird, teebird, Eagle,etc) you can usually find a nice seasoned one at a play it again sports or something similar