Age Protected Amateurs Playing a 4th Round of the Weekend

[Central Scrutinizer]

I find myself saying this a lot these days. "We live in a time of milk and honey." There are flex starts and A-tiers (and even above that) and everything between them. Sanctioned leagues, fun leagues, putting leagues, doubles events, and a gazillion courses and Discs. Choose your own adventure!

 

[WD09]

A few weeks ago at Texas States (the Am and age-protected weekend that followed the DGPT weekend), we played 2 rounds with shotgun starts on Saturday and another 18 on Sunday morning, followed by a final 9 for those who made the cut.

My division (MA50) played the Cedar course Saturday morning, followed by the Dogwood course in all the long pin positions (the layout the pros used at Texas States in past years) in the afternoon. My card took 4 hours and 40 minutes to play that round on Dogwood. I was a super-tired old dude!

On Sunday morning we came back with an 8 am shotgun start to play the Hickory course (the second-longest one on the property), then a final nine made up of nine holes of Dogwood, again in the long positions, again shotgun start (our holes were 3-11). We were joking at the end of the Sunday morning round about if anyone actually wanted to play the final nine or if we should just start throwing OB a few times to be sure to miss the cut.

It's probably the most tired I have been after a weekend of disc golf, including some trips where I played multiple courses per day. I was surprised they set it up that way.

 

[ru4por]

A few weeks ago at Texas States (the Am and age-protected weekend that followed the DGPT weekend), we played 2 rounds with shotgun starts on Saturday and another 18 on Sunday morning, followed by a final 9 for those who made the cut.

My division (MA50) played the Cedar course Saturday morning, followed by the Dogwood course in all the long pin positions (the layout the pros used at Texas States in past years) in the afternoon. My card took 4 hours and 40 minutes to play that round on Dogwood. I was a super-tired old dude!

On Sunday morning we came back with an 8 am shotgun start to play the Hickory course (the second-longest one on the property), then a final nine made up of nine holes of Dogwood, again in the long positions, again shotgun start (our holes were 3-11). We were joking at the end of the Sunday morning round about if anyone actually wanted to play the final nine or if we should just start throwing OB a few times to be sure to miss the cut.

It's probably the most tired I have been after a weekend of disc golf, including some trips where I played multiple courses per day. I was surprised they set it up that way.

I mentioned a defunct group below that really aimed at educating TD's on what us old guys want. Started showing up to their events in force and really voicing your opinions on those things that help us. In the long run, I think it really has paid off. Many TD's before would start AM1 on hole one and MA40, MA50 would be starting on hole 8 or 12. That has changed, most TD put the old guys on the first couple holes. We are given early morning tee times and generally do not play long tees. I am not going to take full credit for the changes, but I think an organized voice was heard a bit louder, than someone complaining at tournament central. We are a decent sized group and do a lot for most of our areas. Our voices should be heard.

 

[BillFleming]

I mentioned a defunct group below that really aimed at educating TD's on what us old guys want. Started showing up to their events in force and really voicing your opinions on those things that help us. In the long run, I think it really has paid off. Many TD's before would start AM1 on hole one and MA40, MA50 would be starting on hole 8 or 12. That has changed, most TD put the old guys on the first couple holes. We are given early morning tee times and generally do not play long tees. I am not going to take full credit for the changes, but I think an organized voice was heard a bit louder, than someone complaining at tournament central. We are a decent sized group and do a lot for most of our areas. Our voices should be heard.

I've played a few tournaments where us old guys (MA60) were started at the furthest holes from the parking lot. It's nice when TDs listen and take into consideration we just aren't that young and agile any more.

 

[Innova63]

To me, a tournament is multiple rounds.

Way back when I started playing, leagues were one round at a specific time, usually during the week, but during winter, on the weekends.

When we started traveling and meeting other players (usually not from the mid-west), we heard the term "minis".

We learned that those were one round tournaments, usually on the weekend though.

Of course, back then, a 1day tournament was usually 3 rounds.

If they would have had them back then, I think the "flex" starts would be called minis.

I don't know what a "flex" start league would be called...

 

[DavidSauls]

Many TD's before would start AM1 on hole one and MA40, MA50 would be starting on hole 8 or 12. That has changed, most TD put the old guys on the first couple holes.

I've played a few tournaments where us old guys (MA60) were started at the furthest holes from the parking lot. It's nice when TDs listen and take into consideration we just aren't that young and agile any more.

I got tired of being sent to the furthest reaches of courses every round. When we ran 2-day, 4-round tournaments at Stoney Hill, we set up the scoreboard this way:

Round 1 -- MPO on hole 1, and on down through the divisions, like everyone else does.

Round 2 -- MPO on hole 7, and then the same order around the board.

Round 3 -- MPO on hole 13, etc.

Round 1 -- back to the original.

That way, no matter which division you were in, in different rounds you would start on very different parts of the course, and be virtually assured to start somewhere close, and somewhere far, in different rounds.

I hoped it would catch on, but it never did. However, I liked it.

 

[drk_evns]

I definitely notice my throw losing power after a long day of disc golf. When you get in that state, it's also easy to lose focus on putts.

Meyer Broadway is no joke. I played the NADGT event last year with two rounds on North. I started on the furthest possible hole both rounds. I was 29 at the time and could barely make it back after the second round finished.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I definitely notice my throw losing power after a long day of disc golf. When you get in that state, it's also easy to lose focus on putts.

Meyer Broadway is no joke. I played the NADGT event last year with two rounds on North. I started on the furthest possible hole both rounds. I was 29 at the time and could barely make it back after the second round finished.

The south course is even hillier and more difficult. I love both courses! Way back in 2001, I'm the guy who convinced St. Joe County Parks to improve their awful 9-holer there (designed and installed by the parks rangers who had never played a round) to the first full 18-hole version that was there until the big redesign for the 2008 worlds. Holes #1-#4 there are still mine from that original. (Well, half of #4). Everything else has changed.

The same guy who is in charge of Cold Brook's park system now was the guy in charge of St. Joseph County Parks back then. He'd approve my design, then install several holes without consulting me or telling me. I was super embarrassed by how half of that course turned out, but there was nothing I could do. Once they redid it for worlds after another parks superintendent arrived, they did a great job in my opinion. In the last few years the parks started actually mowing reasonable fairways too. Back in the early days they only would mow like 1/3 as wide as they do now and it was terrible. It's better now than it's ever been, by a long shot. I think the property as a whole is every bit as good as Flip City. I'm lucky to only live 20 minutes away!

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Too late to edit, I meant to say the parks superintendent would approve my design, then install holes I didn't design while I wasn't there. To say the least, they were terrible holes. There's no surprise that Larry's K'Aces league has had a kerfuffle with him and it (plus the Cracked Plastic Classic) had to be moved elsewhere from the oldest course in the area (Cold Brook).

 

[drk_evns]

Yeah I really enjoyed the North course when I played. I'm sure I'll try out the South at some point.

I'm convinced West Michigan has some of the highest quality disc golf courses around. I've played in many places around the country and I have yet to find a place with such a high quantity of OUTSTANDING courses.

Flip City
Blue Gill
Black Falcon
Breakers
Brewer
Hammond Hill
Riverside
Lake Arvesta
Burchfield
Shore Acres
Meyer Broadway
Whitehall
Paw Paw

All seriously fantastic courses. They rival some of the best I've been to.

 

[ru4por]

Yeah I really enjoyed the North course when I played. I'm sure I'll try out the South at some point.

I'm convinced West Michigan has some of the highest quality disc golf courses around. I've played in many places around the country and I have yet to find a place with such a high quantity of OUTSTANDING courses.

Flip City
Blue Gill
Black Falcon
Breakers
Brewer
Hammond Hill
Riverside
Lake Arvesta
Burchfield
Shore Acres
Meyer Broadway
Whitehall
Paw Paw

All seriously fantastic courses. They rival some of the best I've been to.

I believe that Beast/Goliath, Beauty, Leviathan, Whiskey Hills should probably be on that list as well. We are pretty blessed with both the land and interested disc golfers to have such a trove. All while, KZoo, Grand Rapids and Ann Arbor really having destination worthy collections, in their own right.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I am absolutely against limiting holes or rounds for old guys. I will not address juniors. I am all for being in better shape and the advantage going to those who train and exercise for success. I want tournaments to be a weekend test. If that is too much I want my B Tier tests to be two rounds. I also want Worlds to be 6+ rounds over 4+ days. I think they should be a physical contest as well as a mental one.

I fully agree to this but also got me thinking. I know MA40 is age protected but also don't think it needs 'Old Guy Status' the same as MA50 and above. i'm 48 now, will be MA50 eligible next year and have to say the last year and a little, Ive been feeling the second (or 3rd or 4th) day much more than I had at even 45.

I don't really want this but just as a question, what if at MA50 and above there were changes? As suggested in the OP? What would I want to do? Would I play advanced instead? or MA2? or jump to MP (assuming the open age protected divisions do NOT get the same changes/concessions)? I really would rather play with the MA40 and 50 guys I enjoy them as card-mates and competitors much more.

Not sure how I feel about that really just throwing it out. I am already thinking I may try and enter MP50 next year on some events anyway.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I fully agree to this but also got me thinking. I know MA40 is age protected but also don't think it needs 'Old Guy Status' the same as MA50 and above. i'm 48 now, will be MA50 eligible next year and have to say the last year and a little, Ive been feeling the second (or 3rd or 4th) day much more than I had at even 45.

I don't really want this but just as a question, what if at MA50 and above there were changes? As suggested in the OP? What would I want to do? Would I play advanced instead? or MA2? or jump to MP (assuming the open age protected divisions do NOT get the same changes/concessions)? I really would rather play with the MA40 and 50 guys I enjoy them as card-mates and competitors much more.

Not sure how I feel about that really just throwing it out. I am already thinking I may try and enter MP50 next year on some events anyway.

I think the consensus around here is that there are already one-round tourneys (the flex start c-tiers and whatnot), and there's the huge multi-day serious ones like worlds, and everything between them, and everybody can choose what they want based on their needs already.

I am 49 now and noticing a big difference even from two years ago in those second long hilly rounds of the day. I guess it's just my time. I wasn't ever entertaining the idea of heading to worlds or anything like that anyway. It's all about fostering my son now and dinking around in a few little tourneys for a little fun for myself here and there.

He took 5th out of 29 in Am-3 in a B-tier last weekend and earned a berth in the am state finals next Labor Day, shooting 915 golf for the day's two rounds. Pretty damned good for a sixth grader if I don't say so myself!

 

[Putt for D'oh]

915 for a 6th grader is really good!

I don't consider myself in great shape, but not bad either. I have felt like I have an advantage over my local peers on the second day of more grueling or longer courses. Part of the reason i think about jumping to MP50 next year. Most of those guys in the area are pretty cool, and some are very very good.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

915 for a 6th grader is really good!

I don't consider myself in great shape, but not bad either. I have felt like I have an advantage over my local peers on the second day of more grueling or longer courses. Part of the reason i think about jumping to MP50 next year. Most of those guys in the area are pretty cool, and some are very very good.

I'm right there with you in physical condition. I'm not fit, but I work in an active occupation and would consider myself fairly decent for my age. I have a pretty bad left hip, and I get stiff and sore way quicker than I did just a few years ago, and it takes longer for it to go away. I suppose this is to be expected. I can still putt!

 

[ru4por]

I fully agree to this but also got me thinking. I know MA40 is age protected but also don't think it needs 'Old Guy Status' the same as MA50 and above. i'm 48 now, will be MA50 eligible next year and have to say the last year and a little, Ive been feeling the second (or 3rd or 4th) day much more than I had at even 45.

I don't really want this but just as a question, what if at MA50 and above there were changes? As suggested in the OP? What would I want to do? Would I play advanced instead? or MA2? or jump to MP (assuming the open age protected divisions do NOT get the same changes/concessions)? I really would rather play with the MA40 and 50 guys I enjoy them as card-mates and competitors much more.

Not sure how I feel about that really just throwing it out. I am already thinking I may try and enter MP50 next year on some events anyway.

As CS in the next post states, I am also in an area to pick and choose what to play. Plenty of one day C Tiers. I am looking to grab my points early in the year and will play my rating to get most of them. This year I went out and played a four pack of early A Tiers. I am beat up and need to burn up a little of the honey do list, at home. I can now spend the summer playing and being picky about what tournament I play and whom I can get to see and play with, for the rest of the year. I am picky about tournaments and TD's for the duration. I enjoy well run events on courses that will be a challenge. But to the OP's point, I guess I am not playing anymore three round gigs. Dang.....they are rough.

 

[ejvogie]

As CS in the next post states, I am also in an area to pick and choose what to play. Plenty of one day C Tiers. I am looking to grab my points early in the year and will play my rating to get most of them. This year I went out and played a four pack of early A Tiers. I am beat up and need to burn up a little of the honey do list, at home. I can now spend the summer playing and being picky about what tournament I play and whom I can get to see and play with, for the rest of the year. I am picky about tournaments and TD's for the duration. I enjoy well run events on courses that will be a challenge. But to the OP's point, I guess I am not playing anymore three round gigs. Dang.....they are rough.

If you're into 2 round 1 day B tiers, come on down to the far SE corner

 

[Rastnav]

I am looking to grab my points early in the year and will play my rating to get most of them.

Just as an aside, as someone who hasn't done the tournament thing except once (it's so hard to get in these days) and just finished my first singles league, why are you targeting getting a certain number of points?

I think they play some role in making you eligible for Worlds, but past that I'm clueless.

 

[ru4por]

Just as an aside, as someone who hasn't done the tournament thing except once (it's so hard to get in these days) and just finished my first singles league, why are you targeting getting a certain number of points?

I think they play some role in making you eligible for Worlds, but past that I'm clueless.

It is for Worlds. Each sanctioned tournament you play, you earn points, for each player you beat or tie. There are multipliers for divisioning and tournament tiers. Each division has a point threshold set, by the PDGA, to earn an invitation to the following year's World Championship.

My quest is to play Masters Worlds next year in Flagstaff AZ. I generally will play my rating, in AM3 or AM2, to gather those points quickly and early in the season. It is a longer venture to earn points in MA50+, as they rarely have more than 6 or so players in the division. Moving to a division with 20-30 players gives me a better chance to beat or tie more players....more points. Larger, multi day, three round A Tier events offer bigger fields and higher multipliers on my points.

Now, that my points are out of the way, I pick tournaments based on my pure enjoyment.

Michigan Amateur Open - a tournament run by a good TD. Brings in food, beer and refreshments for a Sat, post round player party. The event is two 21 hole rounds, one Sat and one Sun. Each with tee times. I really enjoy the course and do not get to play it often.

Michigan Masters - MA40+ and above only. TD is a terrific guy, providing a potluck type lunch, trophy only, one day/two round event. Getting to see, hang out with and catching up with a ton of the best generation of golfers, makes this a do not miss. $10 entry. Also on a challenging course I do not play, but once a year.

Just a couple examples of tournaments that might not fit into my schedule if I was seeking purely points. Getting points early also means more time playing in the divisions I really enjoy.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Heh, a little update for this thread. I took my son to Peoria over the Memorial Day holiday so he could practice his MJ-15 courses for worlds. I played along as well, and yes, this included a 4th round of the weekend. This time however, the courses in question were Wildlife Park and then Northwood.

It took me 4 days after getting home to fully recover. That Wildlife course is no joke!! One of the most rugged and physically demanding courses I've ever experienced, and at the same time it had some of the most memorable holes too.

I've been hobbling around like I was an extra on the set of Michael Jackson's Thriller up until today.