[Innova] Best driver on the market

[Moogerfooger98]

I think a nicely beat star/champ firebird is pretty close to fresh star Thunderbird.

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[ThrowaEnvy]

Yeah the Firebird is pretty awesome.. I can do lots of work with a 160 proline, hence my gyro biased counter culture fission Photon vote... I also like the Roadrunner suggestion.. Add a Valk and a Teebird or Thunderbird and you have a pretty solid bag...

This thread probably should have been titled "Twmmcoy's Ode to my new love the Thunderbird" but not as many people would have bit on that.

 

[Twmccoy]

I'll admit I'm no Firebird expert, but the few I've thrown haven't been anything like a Thunderbird. MUCH more overstable and a near complete lack of glide. Innova isn't kidding when they rate the glide of the Firebird at 3. its a great headwind disc, but it doesn't go very far for me. I feel like the Thunderbird will cover a larger range of shots than a Firebird, unless you absolutely thrash the Firebird so badly that it starts flying straight (in which case you should probably just start with a new champ Thunderbird).

As for the Flow, I've only thrown 1 of them. I liked it. It actually does fly like a longer Thunderbird. Very domey with little to no high speed turn.

 

[slowplastic]

I'll admit I'm no Firebird expert, but the few I've thrown haven't been anything like a Thunderbird. MUCH more overstable and a near complete lack of glide. Innova isn't kidding when they rate the glide of the Firebird at 3. its a great headwind disc, but it doesn't go very far for me. I feel like the Thunderbird will cover a larger range of shots than a Firebird, unless you absolutely thrash the Firebird so badly that it starts flying straight (in which case you should probably just start with a new champ Thunderbird).

If you see a domey 150 class Firebird give it a try, as an extreme example of what they can be. You can pump them out very straight for a long time, and then they have that late hard Firebird hook up. I've also thrown absolutely thrashed Star Firebirds that flew like a PD...agree though better off starting with a PD/Thunderbird if that disc is lost.

 

[jjmiller]

I used a Star Firebird for a year and a half as an almost exclusively forehand player on rocky courses. As it beat in, it picked up turn. Kept a pretty dumpy fade until I eventually lost it. But I also never threw it backhand because it would have been far too much for my backhand at that time...

Have you guys that have really beaten in Firebirds gotten them to eventually lose fade? Without picking up a bunch of turn?

It seems to me like the beauty of a Thunderbird or PD is that they're still quite HSS but with reduced LSS compared to a Firebird.

 

[Twmccoy]

I used a Star Firebird for a year and a half as an almost exclusively forehand player on rocky courses. As it beat in, it picked up turn. Kept a pretty dumpy fade until I eventually lost it. But I also never threw it backhand because it would have been far too much for my backhand at that time...

Have you guys that have really beaten in Firebirds gotten them to eventually lose fade? Without picking up a bunch of turn?

It seems to me like the beauty of a Thunderbird or PD is that they're still quite HSS but with reduced LSS compared to a Firebird.

This is exactly why I love the Thunderbird. No real high speed turn, but it also doesn't have a massive late fade. A Thunderbird will carry for a long distance perfectly flat. I think the 2 fade that Innova lists the Thunderbird at is correct. Most Firebirds I've seen seem to fade pretty much right after you release them... hard. Something in the realm of 4 fade.

 

[kjr63]

Have you guys that have really beaten in Firebirds gotten them to eventually lose fade? Without picking up a bunch of turn?

Imo this disc is a Champion Banshee. It is slower than Firebird, but because of less fade has similar or more distance.

 

[SD86]

I think a nicely beat star/champ firebird is pretty close to fresh star Thunderbird.

I have an early-run Star Thunderbird. It's basically a glide-y Firebird for my noodle arm. Very useful at times, though.

Imo this disc is a Champion Banshee. It is slower than Firebird, but because of less fade has similar or more distance.

Love the Champion Banshee. My 165g Banshee is "just right" for throwing into the wind or hyzering around obstacles.

 

[ThrowBot]

Another mold to consider is pretty obscure: The Monster L. I bought a few X-out champs purely by accident, and they are very straight flyers. All the high speed stability you could want, but very gentle fade. Not a whole lot of glide tho. Just a point and shoot control driver that's not going to do max distance (especially not for a speed 10!) but also not going to surprise you much ever.

I really do think that the Monster L was ahead of it's time; very much a predecessor to the PD and the Thunderbird. Doesn't help that it's one of the rarer "L" molds, so many don't even know they exist or what that even means.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

Slight derail here, but all the L molds are great really. It's too bad innova doesn't put much time or effort in to most of them. If they marketed them, and labeled them better they could all do really well.

 

[Nenja]

As for the Flow, I've only thrown 1 of them. I liked it. It actually does fly like a longer Thunderbird. Very domey with little to no high speed turn.

Nice to see someone who tried the fine generation of Flow, most likely pearly gold?
When you beat that one slightly us, it's the steaightest 375' I've seen.

 

[SD86]

Slight derail here, but all the L molds are great really. It's too bad innova doesn't put much time or effort in to most of them. If they marketed them, and labeled them better they could all do really well.

Totally agree with this. There's the TL and Beast-L and Eagle-L, but to me a great but underrated disc is the SL. <3

Agree that it's surprising tha Innova didn't do more with these discs and marketing of them.

 

[ThrowBot]

Yeah, clearly marking and marketing would help the L molds a lot.

One problem with a lot of the L molds is they're too close to the X mold version, to where there's a lot of overlap and you wouldn't have much reason to bag both. That's how Monster and Monster-L were for me; ML was objectively a great disc but I didn't have much use for it. This is especially true if you have any mind for cycling. So it's tough to market when they're too close like that, because ideally the easiest target for the L version should be people who already love the X version, or the other way around.

Hey, we make a great compliment to your favorite mold! And it's got a name you already know and trust!

Does anyone actually bag a Teebird and a TL? I feel like Banshee + TL is a better pairing; more room to breathe between the two. What about Firebird and FL?

The exception here is Eagle X and Eagle L, which are far enough apart to be really great compliments to each other. Can cover all of your fairway slots with those two molds.

 

[SD86]

Yeah, clearly marking and marketing would help the L molds a lot.

One problem with a lot of the L molds is they're too close to the X mold version, to where there's a lot of overlap and you wouldn't have much reason to bag both. That's how Monster and Monster-L were for me; ML was objectively a great disc but I didn't have much use for it. This is especially true if you have any mind for cycling. So it's tough to market when they're too close like that, because ideally the easiest target for the L version should be people who already love the X version, or the other way around.

Hey, we make a great compliment to your favorite mold! And it's got a name you already know and trust!

Does anyone actually bag a Teebird and a TL? I feel like Banshee + TL is a better pairing; more room to breathe between the two. What about Firebird and FL?

The exception here is Eagle X and Eagle L, which are far enough apart to be really great compliments to each other. Can cover all of your fairway slots with those two molds.

To your (excellent) point, I'm not sure the L molds were made or meant to be compliments to their regular mold counterparts, but more as alternatives to them. The TL was meant to be a less overstable Teebird for us more noodlish-armed players out there, as an example. And yes, I pair the Banshee with the TL (or the Leo3 these days). The Beast-L is not 'all that' different than a Beast-X, but some may prefer it as an alternative to the X.

I tried the FL, and it's an okay disc, but for what the Firebird is made to do, a Sexton FB did as good if not better job than the FL. So there was one place the L mold didn't do much.

It was something Innova tried, and I appreciate them trying.

 

[slowplastic]

I used a Star Firebird for a year and a half as an almost exclusively forehand player on rocky courses. As it beat in, it picked up turn. Kept a pretty dumpy fade until I eventually lost it. But I also never threw it backhand because it would have been far too much for my backhand at that time...

Have you guys that have really beaten in Firebirds gotten them to eventually lose fade? Without picking up a bunch of turn?

It seems to me like the beauty of a Thunderbird or PD is that they're still quite HSS but with reduced LSS compared to a Firebird.

I agree with you. The most trashed star FB I've thrown picked up a -0.5 to -1 turn, but still had a bit more hooking fade than a PD that has seen some use. However, it was probably easier as a placement/landing zone driver because that firm but workable HSS won't take you off line or punish too much hyzer, and the consistent fade is so trusty.

 

[jjmiller]

I agree with you. The most trashed star FB I've thrown picked up a -0.5 to -1 turn, but still had a bit more hooking fade than a PD that has seen some use. However, it was probably easier as a placement/landing zone driver because that firm but workable HSS won't take you off line or punish too much hyzer, and the consistent fade is so trusty.

If I can ever get some more pop on my weak backhand, I could see the Felon that has gotten a little too flippy/long for forehand lines on our local course fitting into exactly what you describe.

 

[slowplastic]

If I can ever get some more pop on my weak backhand, I could see the Felon that has gotten a little too flippy/long for forehand lines on our local course fitting into exactly what you describe.

I actually was going to add in that the Felon is an off the shelf version of that disc basically. In a way I think it's an inferior disc to the Thunderbird and Firebird...it has nearly as much fade as a Firebird but isn't even as HSS as the Thunderbird. But, that actually makes it a really workable OS disc, really easy to range, can still do some trick/skip shots, and can carry a lot farther if you put a little flex on it. However it isn't as good in wind as either of those two discs. I carry all 3.

 

[Twmccoy]

Another mold to consider is pretty obscure: The Monster L. I bought a few X-out champs purely by accident, and they are very straight flyers. All the high speed stability you could want, but very gentle fade. Not a whole lot of glide tho. Just a point and shoot control driver that's not going to do max distance (especially not for a speed 10!) but also not going to surprise you much ever.

I really do think that the Monster L was ahead of it's time; very much a predecessor to the PD and the Thunderbird. Doesn't help that it's one of the rarer "L" molds, so many don't even know they exist or what that even means.

I know a lot of star Monsters were L molds. I have a few of them, but I've never thrown one. Some champs were L molds about 10 years ago too.

I'll admit, the Monster is one mold I've thrown very, very little.

 

[Twmccoy]

Nice to see someone who tried the fine generation of Flow, most likely pearly gold?
When you beat that one slightly us, it's the steaightest 375' I've seen.

The Flow I threw was opto, blue, metal flake. Fairly beefy disc. It was handling all the arm I was giving it without flipping over.

Oh, and I'm not a fan of any of Innova's L mold discs. I feel like they took a bunch of good molds and basically wimped them out. TLs are OK if you want a straight flying fairway driver with no late fade. I think L molds are made for short finesse shots. If you throw them hard and flat they always flip.

I HATED the SL, especially in star. It was flat, had no glide, and flipped pretty bad. However, when the disc slowed down it would search for the ground with a heavy fade. Just a very weird flight. Some of the pro Starfires were better fliers and had good glide.

 

[slowplastic]

TLs are OK if you want a straight flying fairway driver with no late fade.

Yeah, who would want that :\

TL's should be more popular, really close to a C-FD for reference. Pretty much ideal fairways for most typical players.