Breaking Bad Timing Habit

Maybe some upper body progress today, realized my swing is in much better shape when I'm thinking about throwing a frisbee and thought maybe all I have to do is translate that onto disc golf footwork. I think it looks a bit better! Of course I'm all over my toes again in my x step, trying to focus on too many things at once.





 
Some of that looks improved.

I am trying to figure out the best cue to help you complete the backswing + coil. I think you still have a too-flat swing plane, posturally speaking.

To attack both at once, I think you should explore/post you doing the drill around 1:10 here, especially focused on getting wrapped all the way around nose-to-armpit. It's going to feel very different. Backswing should feel more like that than your move there.



I would air on the side of ignoring the exact disc trajectory a bit. Have an apex in mind, but you need to coax your body to get a full move on the rear side before shifting forward and accept more spray (and speed) before you tune it.

2-3 weeks for muscle memory to set in.
 
Some better throws today for sure - I think between that drill and just working on transferring my weight like a golf swing I started to remember how to shift onto the front side a bit better.

I didn't have anything close to a golf club to use, so I tried the drill with my hammer yesterday. Struggled with the weight a little bit but I think it at least helped my concept of the backswing.




What really helped was just thinking about a left handed golf swing. Did a lot of warming up with that idea today




And then some throws, still definitely some work to be done on the release and other stuff I'm sure but progress!





 
You aren't getting your head/spine balanced on the front leg. Your hips slide forward and your head/spine drops down.
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I do want to say & reinforce that your new golf-style swing thought seems like it's making you move more naturally and coordinated and less effortful overall. I would retain that big picture idea.

I see what SW said in your hammer swing and throws. I also wanted to point out:

1. I think you're still hanging your center back/biased to lean away rather than coil back in "center balance" like Gibson.
2. Fundamentally, still need to get balanced on the rear leg and then front leg like sidewinder showed above. Since you're trying the hammer, wanted to point out that your shoulders are still trying to load and come through too flat. Look at how Gibson and sidewinder's shoulders have an aggressive upward slant in transition before they coil back. Maybe your posture and balance will respond better starting bringing your pump up like his before coiling back.

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So many things to work on, but it seems like the main theme is that my balance is a big issue. I've been attacking it in a few different ways - first seeing if it would work to target my head and the way that the top of my head tends to lead the downswing - and then when that didn't really help any underlying issues, working slowly, shifting between my feet and trying to feel my balance and alignment. The last two clips are where I was at today, does that look closer to how it should?

 
1. For wide stagger stance standstill you need to setup behind/east of your front heel. If you are doing One Leg Drill then you need to get your front hip stacked over your ankle and stand up on it.

2. You start turning back too early before fully shifting back. I'd recommend turning open while shifting back to start with.

3. Your knee leaked back over toes. Need to push your foot harder into the ground west, to move/clear your knee/hip back east.

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1. For wide stagger stance standstill you need to setup behind/east of your front heel. If you are doing One Leg Drill then you need to get your front hip stacked over your ankle and stand up on it.

2. You start turning back too early before fully shifting back. I'd recommend turning open while shifting back to start with.

3. Your knee leaked back over toes. Need to push your foot harder into the ground west, to move/clear your knee/hip back east.

View attachment 334032
Thanks, I'll try that! Watching coverage this weekend I got to see a lot of standstills and how different they all look than mine, how far east they are behind front foot when they complete their shift forward. Maybe sometimes they start to leak a little bit west, but nothing like I do. Earlier today I was trying to replicate what I saw and I honestly just couldn't figure it out, I probably need to set up even more behind my foot and resist harder like you said.

Bit of a different direction, worked on my riding the bull today. Feel like there's probably some good some bad, any better?




Thanks!
 
The backswing is where we see the main differences, although the motions are similar, while the sequence/timing is identical.
BGcdTl.gif


From the plant they are almost identical.
grVelE.gif
Looks the same to me, still extending the lower spine/APT - abs not engaged.

Not sure makeagif is working on the quote function. Note how GG's left arm and right arm both pump targetward leading into the x-step, the left arm goes targetward behind his butt.
 
Looks the same to me, still extending the lower spine/APT - abs not engaged.

Not sure makeagif is working on the quote function. Note how GG's left arm and right arm both pump targetward leading into the x-step, the left arm goes targetward behind his butt.
Dang, yeah no I agree though, a lot of the same issues are still there unchanged. Still really not sure whether it's coming from upper body or lower body dysfunction. Do you think focusing on feeling my body moving under my head is productive with the issues I'm facing, or is there something else I need to fix first?

Thanks again!
 
When you were using the broom the whole stick is in front of your body instead of riding it between the legs with a tail, so that makes you more upright instead of more athletically tilted. You are also moving your feet back and forth and turning a lot. Try to keep your toes in place while the heels move and change your tilt back and forth rather than turning back and forth.
 
Another attempt! Made some changes, tried to figure out why those standstills are so tough for me to get right.

 
Dingle Arm

1. Need some stagger, toe - heel - should help move you back inside posture.

2. Need to keep your knees back out of the way of the swing.

3. Need to swing shoulder forward over hip/knee.

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When you were adjusting your stagger around 1:10 you are doing it backwards by moving your front foot around, instead of moving the rear foot around. Watch how I setup below, standing on front leg and then moving rear foot back/bouncing back and forth.

 
Giving my finger a rest and doing some drills with some inspiration from some of the recent Technique threads. The "swing shoulder forward over hip knee thing" has been a real sticking point for me - I think the whole time I've been throwing discs I've been back and forth between some version of tilting my spine over the top and some version of tiling my spine behind the brace (like SW showed in those pictures above). Just been trying to copy this:
and trying to simplify my feet.

 
Still helps me to work on this stuff.

I know you know this, but try to let the hand/disc/hammer swing go all the way through the release point. Basically you have a similar problem to me where your body just doesn't want to let your momentum flow freely ahead. Free up your pump/elongate the swing hammering through the release point. Let the momentum of the hammer at its peak extension carry you forward into the next step. It should feel like it's helping elevate/launch/pull you ahead. I would say get a little more free and ballistic (carefully) before you get detail oriented based on how you're moving there.

Throw the hammer, but focus on swinging and throwing it straight down the line (still on hyzer plane).
 
Got ballistic:

I think I had some of my best hammer throws ever today, though I'm still not sure if I'm working with the right feels. The backswing with the hammer feels like a pendulum, or a golf swing, where I'm imagining that the path of the hammer is essentially vertical. On the downswing, it seems like the hammer needs to be more horizontal, if I'm copying that SW gif above. So vertical in the backswing, to horizontal-ish in the downswing? If that's the case, I'm still not getting how that transition should feel.

Where I landed with it, which may or may not be the right way to think about it, I don't know, is that once I do my shift my upper body is essentially spinning in place, unwrapping the hammer around my front shoulder. I've assumed anything to do with intentional spinning is kind of a no no, but it's what seemed to get me the best results today. Still not liking the arch in my lower back.





 
Side view: Keep letting your throwing shoulder/core counter-rotate the shift all the way until you plant. Should feel a little more like your core is coiling up against the leverage in your rear instep.


Rear view: "Heave" the arm and hammer back a little more directly toward the camera.
 
Sorry to go off on a tangent, worked on what you suggested yesterday but my bad footwork and posture kept getting in the way to a point where everything was just different hues of bad. I feel like I finally got my core a bit more involved in the swing! My abs are toast, even from a half hour and maybe 10-15 throws.

Other big goal was try to get properly balanced on my front leg. It seems like what my body wants to do more than anything is to align itself as if it were swinging the back arm, like a baseball or golf swing. Trying to keep my shoulders more level, not sure if I'm really even on the right track with how that should look though.

 

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