Casual Relief/Barbed Wire Relief

[araytx]

The TD may have been making the rule based on:
803.02 Relief from Obstacles

1. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: harmful insects or animals, people, or any item as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).

That says a player MAY obtain relief, not that they have to take it. It is handy where there might be something that COULD cause harm to a player (bee's nest, thorn bushes, cacti, barbed wire) and allows the player to determine if they need to change their lie. And in this case the TD has provided 'greater relief' (up to 2 meters from the lie).

But that isn't the question. It is implied that the additional meter (up to 2 meters of relief) is from an OB line when the lie is OB or near OB. This wasn't the case. Just a barbed wire remnant in the smack middle of inbounds. What say you?

 

[_MTL_]

The rule says

1. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: harmful insects or animals, people, or any item as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).

Therefore I could declare all barbed wire an obstacle and grant 2M of relief.

 

[txmxer]

The rule says

1. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: harmful insects or animals, people, or any item as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).

Therefore I could declare all barbed wire an obstacle and grant 2M of relief.

Part of the question seems to be the direction of the relief.

Take a look at the OP and assess from there what proper relief would be.

It seems to me as it was framed as "allowable relief sucks, can I do something else"?

 

[BillFleming]

But that isn't the question. It is implied that the additional meter (up to 2 meters of relief) is from an OB line when the lie is OB or near OB. This wasn't the case. Just a barbed wire remnant in the smack middle of inbounds. What say you?

Actually it is. The rule I quoted doesn't say anything about OB. It gives relief from an obstacle and an obstacle can be anywhere on a course, even right in the middle of a fairway. The TD can define what is an obstacle, such as barbed wire. Then relief is taken by the rule. However, the rule also allows the TD to define the relief from that obstacle.

So the TD designated barbed wire as an obstacle and announced greater relief of 2 meters from the object.

 

[araytx]

Actually it is. The rule I quoted doesn't say anything about OB. It gives relief from an obstacle and an obstacle can be anywhere on a course, even right in the middle of a fairway. The TD can define what is an obstacle, such as barbed wire. Then relief is taken by the rule. However, the rule also allows the TD to define the relief from that obstacle.

So the TD designated barbed wire as an obstacle and announced greater relief of 2 meters from the object.

The rule says

1. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: harmful insects or animals, people, or any item as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).

Therefore I could declare all barbed wire an obstacle and grant 2M of relief.

Yes. Correct. I agree with you both. But then the question becomes, if you agree relief is warranted here, in what directions or directions is it allowed?

 

[BillFleming]

803.02 Relief from Obstacles
To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).

So the relief would be taken along the line of play further away from the target - basically behind the existing lie. Unless the Director stated a different relief (such as a drop zone or allowing the player to take relief in front of the obstacle - barbed wire in this case).

If the barbed wire is too close (or against) to OB to take relief behind the lie, the Director should have provided directions for this. Obviously, you can't take your lie further from the target if that puts you OB. I would say that, in that case, relief should be taken to the side of the barbed wire that is furthest away from the target.

 

[araytx]

803.02 Relief from Obstacles
To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).

So the relief would be taken along the line of play further away from the target - basically behind the existing lie. Unless the Director stated a different relief (such as a drop zone or allowing the player to take relief in front of the obstacle - barbed wire in this case).

If the barbed wire is too close (or against) to OB to take relief behind the lie, the Director should have provided directions for this. Obviously, you can't take your lie further from the target if that puts you OB. I would say that, in that case, relief should be taken to the side of the barbed wire that is furthest away from the target.

Good. That was our discussion on the course. I told the thrower that the TD never said "treat it like OB", so while yes there is relief, it is only ON THE LINE OF PLAY and AWAY from the basket. I got called rules Nazi, but he ultimately decided not to use the relief and play from there.

 

[araytx]

Part of the question seems to be the direction of the relief.

Take a look at the OP and assess from there what proper relief would be.

It seems to me as it was framed as "allowable relief sucks, can I do something else"?

Exactly. That last sentence exactly.

 

[BillFleming]

Good. That was our discussion on the course. I told the thrower that the TD never said "treat it like OB", so while yes there is relief, it is only ON THE LINE OF PLAY and AWAY from the basket. I got called rules Nazi, but he ultimately decided not to use the relief and play from there.

Yeah, seems there are a bunch of players that feel the rules should only apply if it benefits them. If you try to 'enforce' or just educate about a rule, you are a 'Rules Nazi' or a 'meanie'.