Course management advice

[yossarian]

I played an event on the weekend on a great layout at a beautiful golf course - with a lot of OB to contend with. I went out of bounds 7 times in round 1 and 6 times in round 2. I have decided it is time to learn more about this "course management" stuff I keep hearing about.

BTW, for what it's worth, my second round was 880-rated and I came third in MA50. The winner of MA2 shot +12 for two rounds. It was a tough course - and a lot of people did a poor job of managing it.

I think a reasonable definition of course management is "reacting to the challenges of the course with the best of your current reliable capabilities". How does that sound? Got a preferred definition?

Course challenges include the layout and conditions on the day. Preparing to react to the challenges includes practice rounds, walking the course, detailed execution plans for each hole, etc. What do you like to do to prepare for an event? How do you handle playing a new course blind?

The best of your current reliable capabilities is the arsenal of shots and discs you are comfortable with and can execute successfully most of the time. You can let these emerge over months and years of playing, or deliberately cultivate with disciplined practice. Which type of player are you? What are your go-to shots?

I've been playing for two years. I play once or twice a week and try to get out a couple times a week to practice drives, approaches, putting, or some combination. I haven't been particularly methodical about practice. Until now, my "course management" has been pretty naive - basically just standing on the teepad debating whether to try and throw max distance or something shorter and safer.

Please share your thoughts, tips, advice, personal routines, etc. Apologies if this thread duplicates any that already exist - I searched but didn't find much. I hope my suggestions and questions will start a useful discussion. Thanks for reading.

 

[biscoe]

I played an event on the weekend on a great layout at a beautiful golf course - with a lot of OB to contend with. I went out of bounds 7 times in round 1 and 6 times in round 2. I have decided it is time to learn more about this "course management" stuff I keep hearing about.

BTW, for what it's worth, my second round was 880-rated and I came third in MA50. The winner of MA2 shot +12 for two rounds. It was a tough course - and a lot of people did a poor job of managing it.

I think a reasonable definition of course management is "reacting to the challenges of the course with the best of your current reliable capabilities". How does that sound? Got a preferred definition?

Course challenges include the layout and conditions on the day. Preparing to react to the challenges includes practice rounds, walking the course, detailed execution plans for each hole, etc. What do you like to do to prepare for an event? How do you handle playing a new course blind?

The best of your current reliable capabilities is the arsenal of shots and discs you are comfortable with and can execute successfully most of the time. You can let these emerge over months and years of playing, or deliberately cultivate with disciplined practice. Which type of player are you? What are your go-to shots?

I've been playing for two years. I play once or twice a week and try to get out a couple times a week to practice drives, approaches, putting, or some combination. I haven't been particularly methodical about practice. Until now, my "course management" has been pretty naive - basically just standing on the teepad debating whether to try and throw max distance or something shorter and safer.

Please share your thoughts, tips, advice, personal routines, etc. Apologies if this thread duplicates any that already exist - I searched but didn't find much. I hope my suggestions and questions will start a useful discussion. Thanks for reading.

You have the gist of it. It isn't really all that complicated. Once you recognize the need to "play smart" occasionally you are half way there. The hard part imo isn't actually recognizing the smart play but getting your lizard brain to commit to it. This (like pretty much everything else either mental or physical) takes practice. The tendency to undercommit to a shot because you are playing safe is very real and is imo quite possibly the most frustrating single thing in golf.

 

[HyooMac]

The tendency to undercommit to a shot because you are playing safe is very real and is imo quite possibly the most frustrating single thing in golf.

And for me, most frequent.

Early release / not following through / loose grip are all symptons of this for me, especially on the tee.

An early tree off the tee or a close tree/branch on the approach are the usual culprits. For me the solutions (theoretically, not yet in practice) are to think and practice full follow throughs before the throws.

 

[BenjiHeywood]

It's a big and complicated subject, i guess, even though the basic concept is fairly simple. You could say something like 'if i played this hole a hundred times, what strategy would give me the lowest total score?', and that might mean a safe shot to circle 2 and try to make a putt versus hitting a small gap to park it (and risking bogey with an early kick).

But it's not just about maths, it's also psychology. Let's say that the birdie/bogey strategy actually has a similar expected value to the play-for-par strategy, so mathematically it doesn't make much difference. But you might be the sort of person who is derailed by taking an unnecessary bogey, or you might be someone who struggles to commit to the safe play. It is frankly a minefield.

The biggest strategy gain for me, particularly in the woods, was focusing more on the early path of the disc and not the end bit. It's so tempting to look at the trees near the basket and choose the shot that gives you the best chance of getting through there. But nowadays I'd rather just roll the dice on a tight gap later on if it makes the early part of the throw safer. If i hit one of those late trees it's a lay up for par, but if i hit early while focused on shaping for the late gap it's probably a bogey.

It's the same with ob, a lot of the time. Going ob doesn't necessarily mean you made a bad decision, if the hole is very difficult or the conditions are awful. But going ob early and never coming back in is a disaster, so you have to think about which miss is better.

But then, having assessed all the horrible things that might happen, you have to somehow clear your mind of those thoughts and focus on the shot you chose. That might be the single biggest skill in disc golf.

 

[ru4por]

When short on prep time and unable to get in a practice round, I find walking the course backwards offers a unique view of each hole. I find this can really highlight potential landing zones for tee shots. I honestly don't do this often, but I am always surprised at the value I get, when I do.

 

[geebob]

Lots of great advice so far and I don't have much to offer from a DG perspective, being a 784 with aspirations to someday make 850. One thing that I brought with me from my distant past playing bolf was walking the course before the round, mentally playing through every shot, and noting the OB. My game was never great, but being prepared mentally was a great advantage over all the guys who were in the clubhouse eating doughnuts and drinking coffee.

By the way, I really like this one...

But then, having assessed all the horrible things that might happen, you have to somehow clear your mind of those thoughts and focus on the shot you chose. That might be the single biggest skill in disc golf.

 

[BenjiHeywood]

[COLOR=var(--text-lighter)]By the way, I really like this one...[/COLOR]

I suppose there are three categories of golfers.

1. People who think about what might go wrong and make a more or less sensible plan, but aren't able to clear their mind (most of us, probably).
2. People who have an incredibly clear mind throughout and never think about the possibility of bad results (these are the guys throwing aces, making incredible gap shots etc but never actually rating very high - but having all the fun lol).
3. People who can correctly assess danger AND then commit to their shot with a clear mind. These guys win things.

 

[ezmorningrebel]

It's very rare during tournament play that the thought of max distance even crosses my mind. I see guys all the time making disc selection based on keeping up with card mates, or recreating that one shot they threw one time. They don't understand the mind set change you need to make to win tournaments. Just play to your strengths and avoid big numbers. Par is good enough to win most am divisions unless it's an easy course.

Once you get rid of the big numbers caused by OB off the tee, short game is where the bogies add up for people. Practice getting up and down from inside 200 ft, play your bad shots during practice rounds, and layup every putt outside your comfort zone that has the potential for trouble.

And practice in bad weather. Fair weather golfers get exposed quickly in tournaments with wind and rain.

 

[RowingBoats]

I suppose there are three categories of golfers.

1. People who think about what might go wrong and make a more or less sensible plan, but aren't able to clear their mind (most of us, probably).
2. People who have an incredibly clear mind throughout and never think about the possibility of bad results (these are the guys throwing aces, making incredible gap shots etc but never actually rating very high - but having all the fun lol).
3. People who can correctly assess danger AND then commit to their shot with a clear mind. These guys win things.

I am capable of visualizing missing my putt as I release my putt. I think that needs a category all to itself lol.

 

[RowingBoats]

I am not an expert at course management so I hesitate to even give advice lol. I am just starting to have competitive aspirations so a lot of this type of thinking has also been on my mind.

I honestly don't think you are that far off distilling a TON of decisions into something like "do I go for it or play smart". But I do think it is common to not actually practice 'playing smart'. We all have practice 'going for it' though.

I don't think there is a single disc golfer who has no experience going for the 'cool shots' lol. We all play casually often, and we all go for crazy shit all the time because its fun. We know how bad those can go, and we know how good they can go.

Have you ever actually just played rounds with your putter though? This is the one piece of advice I think Im comfortable giving here, because it can make a huge difference in how you calculate 'smart play'.

Bring your putter, and PRACTICE playing FOR PAR and pay attention to what happens. Even on holes you can reach relatively easily, just play it a different way. Make it as easy as you possibly can but still get a par.

Warning: Actually doing this may cause you to experience pain when you look at your stacks of dics and realize you can score nearly the same, or god damn it, better...with just one of them.

 

[HyzerRoc]

One thing I took away from playing difficult tournament courses blind is to practice a couple of reliable shots.

The first standard shot I would consider here is your max distance hyzer. Pros use this whenever they can because it has the least error margin. If you want to push distance with it you will need to figure out a distance driver that you can throw on your standard angle (which is some hyzer for me) and will flip up just a little bit, but not too much. It should always hyzer to the left.

Next one for me would be the fairway driver shot that always goes right. Get some flippy fairway drivers for this one, ones which will always flip on your, even if you mess up your anny or straight intended line. You gotta depend on them to go right every time.

And from there you can build more nuanced lines into your arsenal. Having standard reliable shots allows you to slice up the hole in a couple of these shots. They will never be the optimal line, but they are good enough to get you through a tournament with a low margin of error. Dont make them too fancy, keep it simple. Most holes are going left, some go right, some go straight and some par 4s are S lines.

On undercommiting: that one is really hard to deal with. For me it depends on mood, stress, sleepiness, vibe on the card and so on. You gotta know yourself and your tendencies to react to these factors. This will make it easier to rationalise your choices and catch yourself when you overthing shots or you stop caring about them. It also helps to realise that it is okay to mess up shots as that is part of the game. It also helps to rationalise what makes for the best odds to make the shot. For me that is the full send, just blast it through the mando. If it misses, it misses by a lot, but what does it matter?

But it's not just about maths, it's also psychology. Let's say that the birdie/bogey strategy actually has a similar expected value to the play-for-par strategy, so mathematically it doesn't make much difference. But you might be the sort of person who is derailed by taking an unnecessary bogey, or you might be someone who struggles to commit to the safe play. It is frankly a minefield.

I really like this one. Know if a bogey would make you nervous or if a missed long putt would make you question your putting.

 

[foxdawg10]

You can't do anything about the last shot. Don't compound errors by dwelling.

Only focus on the next shot.

 

[yossarian]

The hard part imo isn't actually recognizing the smart play but getting your lizard brain to commit to it.

Yup!! Don't ask yourself "Can I make this shot?" - the answer is always "Yeah, for sure!", because you HAVE made many great shots in the past. Instead you should ask "Can I reliably execute this shot NOW?" If the answer is no - and there's significant downside risk to not executing well - then just throw your putter up the middle, or find some other option that you can execute reliably.

But it's not just about maths, it's also psychology. Let's say that the birdie/bogey strategy actually has a similar expected value to the play-for-par strategy, so mathematically it doesn't make much difference. But you might be the sort of person who is derailed by taking an unnecessary bogey, or you might be someone who struggles to commit to the safe play. It is frankly a minefield.

Yeah, great point. I think for me it is mostly about the maths, and that I've got my personal psychology under a reasonable degree of control. It helps to keep expectations low and be pleasantly surprised when you do well. I try to frame bad throws as opportunities - "Hoo boy, so that just happened! What cool shot do I get to throw now??" /proceeds to take relief from the pond up a steep muddy bank overhung with branches/

People who can correctly assess danger AND then commit to their shot with a clear mind. These guys win things.

Both of which are tricky. Working on it.

Have you ever actually just played rounds with your putter though? This is the one piece of advice I think I'm comfortable giving here, because it can make a huge difference in how you calculate 'smart play'.

Yeah, good advice. I rarely use my putters for "safe" shots - I should totally do that more often. I throw them in the field and can usually get 200 to 250 feet, so it's not like I'd be losing a ton of distance.

One thing I took away from playing difficult tournament courses blind is to practice a couple of reliable shots.

The first standard shot I would consider here is your max distance hyzer. Pros use this whenever they can because it has the least error margin.

Next one for me would be the fairway driver shot that always goes right. Get some flippy fairway drivers for this one, ones which will always flip on your, even if you mess up your anny or straight intended line. You gotta depend on them to go right every time.

I've been thinking more about this, and realized that I throw mostly understable discs. My MVP Wave (11/5/-2/2) is my main distance driver and gets used off most teepads. At 162g and a little beat in, and as my throwing power has increased, it's now quite understable. When I want to throw more reliably straight and not quite as far I use a Latitude 64 Maul (7/7/-2/1) but with so much glide and turn it can easily fall off the straight line to the left OR to the right, making it a little unpredictable. Dropping down to another level of (supposed) safety I go to my Innova Mako3 (5/5/0/0) which is generally pretty straight, but again fairly sensitive to my angle at release.

I would probably do better to drop the disc speed down a notch or two and the fade up a notch or two - use an Axiom Insanity (9/5/-2/1.5) or MVP Crave (6.5/5/-1/1) instead of the Wave; the Crave or Dynamic Discs Truth (5/5/-1/1) instead of the Maul, and an Axiom Envy (3/3/0/2) instead of the Mako3. I should try that at tags this weekend. (Yeah, I know those numbers don't look super-stable, but of the discs in my bag, they do tend to go left pretty reliably.)

 

[yossarian]

I found some good advice from Steve Andrews over on ultiworld, not sure if he hangs out here on DGCR. Several of his posts in particular are about course management, but there's other good stuff on his blog as well. He talks about the reliability of hyzer shots, among other things.
Tuesday Tips: Disc Golf Course Management [Pt. 1 - No Hard Shots] - Ultiworld Disc Golf
Tuesday Tips: Disc Golf Course Management [Pt. 2 - Learn to Score with These Six Shots] - Ultiworld Disc Golf
Tuesday Tips: Don't Be Bullied by the Course - Ultiworld Disc Golf

 

[Nick Carroll]

I've won a lot of rounds against comparably skilled, or higher skilled players, simply because they were too aggressive, often running everything, and not being able to make come-backers. I think there's a spectrum between passive and aggressive play, and I tend to settle on the middle ground: assertive play, by default. That said, I'll dial it back to passive (or conservative) play when I feel like I'm off my game, missing too many putts, etc. I try to be "present" so that I can recognize when I need to change modes.

In passive mode I'll throw putters and mids at lower speeds, with a focus on accuracy, instead of distance. Often some "gettable" holes I'm just playing for par.

In assertive mode I'll throw normally with discs sized for the distance and shot shape, and run putts safely to minimize the comebackers. Generally this is what I aim for, and will adjust accordingly.

In aggressive mode, I really have to be in the zone at the time, and I'm attentive to when I need to dial it back, but I am going big and living in the moment to take advantage of this state, until I'm out of it.

Often self management is the best course management.

 

[HyooMac]

Par is good enough to win most am divisions unless it's an easy course.

So much truth to this.

There's a great advantage when the tournament is at a course you've played more than a few times. You know exactly how to par almost every hole (and you have all that experience to draw on).

Sometimes I'm playing a tournament course blind, or with very little experience beyond a practice round. In that case, I try to look at each hole and ask myself "what's the highest percentage way for me to make par?" with little thought of birdie.

C2/C1/Drop In can feel a little dull, but it can be a relentless path through the par 3's. Envisioning the entirety of C2 (all around, not just in front of the basket) can open up a lot of lines that you know you can execute.

Par 4's just add a step: Think about all the places your teeshot can land that allow you the best opportunity to then make C2.

Par 5's add one more - but mostly, it's "stay in the fairway with an unobstructed next shot!"

There's an old adage that you should play for par, and take the birdies as they present themselves. Good advice for tournament play.

 

[ru4por]

80% down the fairway. [never belittle the guy in the middle] Scuff it to the pin. Drop it in for par. Next hole. PARBAQUE!!

You likely won't win many tournaments, but you will compete.

 

[NewnHot]

I'm playing in a NADGT tournament in a couple weeks and have looked at every hole and picked the ones to play for par from the get-go. I play in the 60+ division and have an average drive of about 300'. We do play the shorts. There is a 306' Par 3 with water carry the last 75' minus the 10' between the water and basket. I have to lay up on this side of pond, then 2nd shot over and past basket, putt for par or it brings in a big number and lost disc. If I go for it and end up in the water, I'm making the same second shot over the water any way plus a stroke and hope to retrieve my disc. Same strategy for the 420' par 3 with a water carry closer to the basket.

 

[ru4por]

I'm playing in a NADGT tournament in a couple weeks and have looked at every hole and picked the ones to play for par from the get-go. I play in the 60+ division and have an average drive of about 300'. We do play the shorts. There is a 306' Par 3 with water carry the last 75' minus the 10' between the water and basket. I have to lay up on this side of pond, then 2nd shot over and past basket, putt for par or it brings in a big number and lost disc. If I go for it and end up in the water, I'm making the same second shot over the water any way plus a stroke and hope to retrieve my disc. Same strategy for the 420' par 3 with a water carry closer to the basket.

Part of my hole by hole breakdown is similar. Birdie chance vs bogey chance. If pushing for the birdie brings in a greater chance for bogey, than is does birdie, a game plan needs to be made.....ideally, in advance of your rounds.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I really like this one. Know if a bogey would make you nervous or if a missed long putt would make you question your putting.

My issue here is that a missed short putt can make me question my putting... and THAT means it affects the rest of my game where I start to feel I have to get my drive/upshot inside 10' to make birdie/save par.

Practice getting up and down from inside 200 ft, play your bad shots during practice rounds,

And practice in bad weather. Fair weather golfers get exposed quickly in tournaments with wind and rain.

These are points that are overlooked by so many people. I often throw multiple discs off the tee in practice rounds. I usually keep score in some way and it is to ALWAYS score the first throw. I play with some others who will take their best shot to play from. I don't care how they are keeping their score or if they even are. BUT they never play from behind the bush or down the hill or whatever. Then when the tournament round comes around they end up getting into more trouble from those errant shots.

Also discovered the need to sometimes go play 'for fun' in crappy weather knowing that its going to be bad for a tournament.