Define "Professional" Disc Golfer

[ChrisWoj]

They actually both play MPO.

That's true, and Hunter is rated 970 something. Trevor I think is sub 930 but plays open anyway.

I truly dislike the PDGA division classifications. Neither of them is a pro. When I refer to MPO I refer to it as the Open Division. Someone calling a 970 golfer (or, at this point, a sub 1000 rated) a pro is a joke.

When I'm out in the pool world - I'm making cash from play in sanctioned leagues and tournaments but the last thing I'd ever do is embarrass myself by referring to myself as a pro pool player, and that's the accepted norm. I know tons of people like to say "dIscGolF dOesNT nEeD tO bE LiKE oThEr sPoRTs" but come on - someone rated below 1000 is only in the rarest of circumstances going to be someone who can refer to themselves as a "professional" disc golfer (circumstances such as: taking a year off due to financial constraints, injury, etc. - and these are people who would normally be over 1000 rated).

 

[dehaas]

I truly dislike the PDGA division classifications. Neither of them is a pro. When I refer to MPO I refer to it as the Open Division. Someone calling a 970 golfer (or, at this point, a sub 1000 rated) a pro is a joke.

When I'm out in the pool world - I'm making cash from play in sanctioned leagues and tournaments but the last thing I'd ever do is embarrass myself by referring to myself as a pro pool player, and that's the accepted norm. I know tons of people like to say "dIscGolF dOesNT nEeD tO bE LiKE oThEr sPoRTs" but come on - someone rated below 1000 is only in the rarest of circumstances going to be someone who can refer to themselves as a "professional" disc golfer (circumstances such as: taking a year off due to financial constraints, injury, etc. - and these are people who would normally be over 1000 rated).

Totally agree, and the discussion probably deserves its own thread. What is the fix to this? Aside from a handful of areas in the country I think it's fairly common for people to start griping if ams are still playing advanced when they get above 950? Or some people would rather play for cash than vouchers and will play up just because they don't want more discs.

Seems like there's a push to elevate that upper tier of events and talent. Do you raise the ratings ranges a bit for the various divisions? Or something else?

 

[ru4por]

Totally agree, and the discussion probably deserves its own thread. What is the fix to this? Aside from a handful of areas in the country I think it's fairly common for people to start griping if ams are still playing advanced when they get above 950? Or some people would rather play for cash than vouchers and will play up just because they don't want more discs.

Seems like there's a push to elevate that upper tier of events and talent. Do you raise the ratings ranges a bit for the various divisions? Or something else?

This is the ratings of Open players in our only MPO endeavor of last year. It was a B Tier.

1 974
2 983
3 989
4 972
5 988
6 985
7 991
8 975
9 963
10 958
11 943
11 980
13 967
14 950
15 945
16 969
17 949
18 946
19 904
20 822

 

[ChrisWoj]

This is the ratings of Open players in our only MPO endeavor of last year. It was a B Tier.

1 974
2 983
3 989
4 972
5 988
6 985
7 991
8 975
9 963
10 958
11 943
11 980
13 967
14 950
15 945
16 969
17 949
18 946
19 904
20 822

My gripe is with referring to those players as professionals. That's perfectly nice set of competitors who want to play in the Open Division.

 

[Ahildy13]

My gripe is with referring to those players as professionals. That's perfectly nice set of competitors who want to play in the Open Division.

If they play for money, they are by definition of the word, "professional."

 

[seedlings]

If they play for money, they are by definition of the word, "professional."

Can the money come from a local club singles match, or must the money come from a sanctioned tournament?

 

[Moonshine]

If they play for money, they are by definition of the word, "professional."

I think there is a pretty clear difference between playing for money and playing as a profession.

 

[Ahildy13]

Can the money come from a local club singles match, or must the money come from a sanctioned tournament?

"2a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs
a professional golfer
b: having a particular profession as a permanent career
a professional soldier
c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return
professional football"

I guess I missed a portion. They have to "receive a financial return"

So you remain amateur until you win some money. Which I think is exactly what the PDGA rules allow for.

 

[ChrisWoj]

If they play for money, they are by definition of the word, "professional."

This depends entirely on the dictionary you are choosing to get your definition. For example: in M&W you are being "paid for your participation" if you use a definition that involves playing for money. This definition rules out most players in the Open Division, and most of the touring pros really - but the touring pros are covered by the definitions that hinge on a livelihood, where your typical local open players are not.

I think there is a pretty clear difference between playing for money and playing as a profession.

Given the variety in the definitions - this is at the crux of it for me. Just because you can come out $500 ahead once in a blue moon and come out $50-100 ahead every week does not mean you're doing something for a living. You're not being paid to participate. You're just gambling on yourself in the Open Division.

 

[Ahildy13]

You're just gambling on yourself in the Open Division.

That makes you a professional gambler then, but what are you gambling on?

Disc golf....

I get your point, but people get hung up on stuff like this for no reason.

If you want to play for money, play for money. You are a pro. You might be an awful one, but you are one none the less.

 

[ChrisWoj]

That makes you a professional gambler then, but what are you gambling on?

Disc golf....

I get your point, but people get hung up on stuff like this for no reason.

If you want to play for money, play for money. You are a pro. You might be an awful one, but you are one none the less.

It does not make you a professional gambler. The definition associated with being paid for participation does not apply to gambling, as you are not paid for mere participation. And the definition for making a living only applies if you are making a living - which the competitors at under a 1000 level are not.

As for hung up on it for no reason - I'm hung up on it because, frankly, it is completely asinine to refer to golfers like me as professional disc golfers, and generally just plain indirectly insulting to people who actually are making a living at the sport.

 

[Ahildy13]

It does not make you a professional gambler. The definition associated with being paid for participation does not apply to gambling, as you are not paid for mere participation. And the definition for making a living only applies if you are making a living - which the competitors at under a 1000 level are not.

As for hung up on it for no reason - I'm hung up on it because, frankly, it is completely asinine to refer to golfers like me as professional disc golfers, and generally just plain indirectly insulting to people who actually are making a living at the sport.

Then use the terms you have already used, Local and Touring Pro. Makes no difference to me. I will continue to use the most widely accepted definition of the word.


Side topic: Are professional skateboarders not pros then? What about Corn hole? Ice skating? Any other slightly obscure but still legitimate sport?
What about professional basketball players in China or Croatia?

 

[Three Putt]

I truly dislike the PDGA division classifications. Neither of them is a pro. When I refer to MPO I refer to it as the Open Division. Someone calling a 970 golfer (or, at this point, a sub 1000 rated) a pro is a joke.

When I'm out in the pool world - I'm making cash from play in sanctioned leagues and tournaments but the last thing I'd ever do is embarrass myself by referring to myself as a pro pool player, and that's the accepted norm. I know tons of people like to say "dIscGolF dOesNT nEeD tO bE LiKE oThEr sPoRTs" but come on - someone rated below 1000 is only in the rarest of circumstances going to be someone who can refer to themselves as a "professional" disc golfer (circumstances such as: taking a year off due to financial constraints, injury, etc. - and these are people who would normally be over 1000 rated).

Totally agree, and the discussion probably deserves its own thread. What is the fix to this? Aside from a handful of areas in the country I think it's fairly common for people to start griping if ams are still playing advanced when they get above 950? Or some people would rather play for cash than vouchers and will play up just because they don't want more discs.

Seems like there's a push to elevate that upper tier of events and talent. Do you raise the ratings ranges a bit for the various divisions? Or something else?

At some point there will be a tour card I'm sure; that will probably make who is a "professional" disc golfer pretty black and white.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Then use the terms you have already used, Local and Touring Pro. Makes no difference to me. I will continue to use the most widely accepted definition of the word.

And I'll continue to not sound ridiculous when I discuss the caliber of players. I did not use the term "local pro" I said "local open player."

Side topic: Are professional skateboarders not pros then? What about Corn hole? Ice skating? Any other slightly obscure but still legitimate sport?
What about professional basketball players in China or Croatia?

Are they making a living at what they do? Yes? Then they are.

 

[foxdawg10]

If they play for money, they are by definition of the word, "professional."

Which definition of the word Professional are you using, dictionary or the PDGA? They don't match.

 

[Ahildy13]

Are they making a living at what they do? Yes? Then they are.

This just in, All NWSL players are not professional soccer players.


Currently, the minimum player salary for the 2021 NWSL season is $22,000 and the maximum player salary is $52,500,

 

[Monocacy]

When I refer to MPO I refer to it as the Open Division.

As is your right.

But the PDGA says (emphasis added):

The PDGA Tour Player system is based on Professional, Amateur, and Junior Divisions with both Mixed divisions (Male & Female) and female-only divisions. Professionals compete for money, Amateurs and Juniors for trophies and prizes.

Sounds like you need to convince the PDGA to revamp its system. Good luck? :\

 

[ray1970]

By using your 1000 rated logic there are pretty much no professionals playing in the FPO division.

 

[Ahildy13]

By using your 1000 rated logic there are pretty much no professionals playing in the FPO division.

Or his making a living logic...

 

[ChrisWoj]

As is your right.

But the PDGA says (emphasis added):



Sounds like you need to convince the PDGA to revamp its system. Good luck? :\

Uh... yes. That is exactly what I was referencing at the start of the conversation. The first thing I said was:

I truly dislike the PDGA division classifications.