DGPT Drops New Media Outlook for 2019

[Glide]

JV...what are your thoughts on...

Live FPO coverage. I like the product...but not when it airs early in the morning. It's like NFL games in London.

MPO2 coverage. Again, I like the product...but theoretically, they are playing holes 2-18 during MPO1 coverage.

Listen... coming from a guy who was just fired from the DGTP...

1. Please give Dodge a chance. None of us know what the 2019 media plan is going to be. He is relying on it quite a bit, so I am expecting big things from it. And from what I have experienced over the past 3 years, don't count Steve Dodge out. He has ways of surprising you.

2. I highly doubt Jomez is in... IF he needs to put the videos on the DGPT page. Obviously anything can change in negotiations. If Jomez can put the footage on his own page, then anything can happen. Even third card of a DGPT event could be better than a large A-tier on the same weekend.

The minimum that the DGPT needs to have is:
-Next day coverage for FPO & MPO1 & 2 cards.
-They will have live coverage of at least the FPO1, MPO1, & MPO2 cards.

I am guessing addition to the above:
-Weekly event review packages
-In depth player bios
-Regular highlight packages

Surprised if it happens:
-Announcement of DGPT coverage on an additional location other than YouTube.

My big head-shaker is that if you didn't have your 2019 plan ready... don't fire SmashBoxx yet, wait 1 week. Have your ducks in a row, and that wasn't the case in this instance.

 

[jvphobic]

It is hard for me to give an opinion on live FPO coverage. I like the exposure that it gives the women. I agree that it may not fit into a prime schedule when the events are on the East Coast. But I find it hard to say that less disc golf is better than more disc golf.

MPO2 coverage. I would love to see that live as well. And I do have ideas on how to make that really compelling and useful, but I am not in the business of handing out free ideas on the board. And it would cost extra money for every event. I do like the idea of having it though. We are going to see winners come from that card more frequently as the competition flattens at the top.

 

[edfaits]

Our rich "ball and stick" golf cousins figured this out

MPO2 coverage. I would love to see that live as well. And I do have ideas on how to make that really compelling and useful, but I am not in the business of handing out free ideas on the board. And it would cost extra money for every event. I do like the idea of having it though. We are going to see winners come from that card more frequently as the competition flattens at the top.

Yep, money for more cameras, more staff, and better technology will do it. Until luxury cars, investment firms and beer companies find the disc golf community profitable improvements will be marginal at best. Disc golf has a better age demographic than ball golf, but still nowhere near the numbers of eyeballs watching.

 

[SD86]

It is a joke that Steve keeps saying that he has a deal on the table for Jomez and hasn't heard from them.

If Steve is going to claim his own in-house production for mpo and fpo lead/chase cards and offer scraps like third card coverage to Jomez, that is not a deal at all.

It is identical to calling someone and saying to them, I'll be sleeping with your wife and living in your house from this point forward, but you can still stay married to her and do holiday dinners with her. Why stay married if all the best parts of marriage have been taken from you? Why would Jomez do coverage if he has swooped in and taken all the best/most profitable elements of Jomez coverage?

Reminds me of the DGWT situation where Jussi said they didn't have money to do live coverage of the USDGC. The PDGA offered to put up the money, and IIRC Smashboxx said they'd do it, and Jussi still refused. THEN the DGWT people continued to try to tell us that the money wasn't there, and it became an integrity issue (at least with me).

Y'all may disagree, but I still question Jussi's integrity over that situation, and now we'll see about Dodge vis-a-vis this Jomez offer. You again may not agree, but to me this whole Dodge/DGPT thing is 'deja vu' all over again. And it stinketh. :thmbdown:

 

[ru4por]

You're over-simplyfing things. When your deals end, don't you know beforehand whether they will be extended? Don't you talk to your partners while under contract, so that you have a good sense if they're happy, or if they want out?
Business is always personal, always has been.

I am not sure that we know this did not happen.

 

[BlueMonk]

I've only been into disc golf for a few years, but it feels like I just got in before a big explosion. The expansion and improvement in coverage is incredible to watch. I'm not sure what the future holds, but it's hard for me to believe this won't be looked back on as an important period of growth.

Just in the past year:

1) UDisc partners with PDGA. Not to mention I can now score my casual round like the pros do using the app.
2) Offsite broadcast crews commenting on live coverage.
3) Pretty much the expectation that every big tournament will be covered live and with high-quality post-production.
4) Patreons for not only players, but Jomez, CCDG and Smashboxx become a big deal (maybe this started before 2018, but it became impossible to not notice it this year).
5) The ESPN spot on McBeth's -18 at DGLO.
6) Paul leaves Innova.
7) Ricky leaves Lat64.
8) This.

I'm leaving stuff out, I'm sure.

So only three years into the sport, I'm already attached to the personalities involved. I'm a GenX-er, but I think I'm an exception to Jamie's rule (which I agree with). I came into a game that is comprised of small-time companies. There are no major companies involved, and some of the key products are made by startups.

The media companies are making some major short-term sacrifices to bring us the coverage we get. That is really meaningful to me and it makes me want to support it. I'm a CCDG Patreon and I will probably support others as well. I buy tour discs I'll never throw to support the pros I like and the disc golf community in general.

So, yeah, I do care about this stuff beyond just finding any old way to watch the tournament. I don't know what percentage of viewers of Smashboxx feel the same way. I guess we're going to find out.

 

[colink]

I will not pay money to support DGPT. My money is limited and I have choose in the past to support CCDG and Jomez and I will continue to do so.

If you watch DGPT's YouTube channel, you are giving them money, unless you skip and close every ad. Even then, DGPT can charge people to insert ads directly into the stream and bypass YouTube.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

I'm shocked profits, costs, and brand protection have brought out an ugly side to growing the sport. Just shocked. There's really only two sources of profit in this game — tournament coverage and gear — and Steve went "all in" on thinking he's secured if not the actual coverage, access to the rights to the coverage. I really can't imagine profit also not carrying over to players' decisions on what tournaments to play, though I'm not an expert on the value and circulation of online content. He has the content. Can he now effectively circulate that content to keep players and fans happy?

I can't decide if I am deeply offended by Steve's indifference to his past collaborators or impressed by his cutthroat nature.

I'm not sure I respect his behavior but it doesn't seem out of line for his investment in his own brand. Time will tell if he succeeds or not. I can't imagine anyone cutting him a friendly deal now. But will he need one?

 

[broomerang]

If you watch DGPT's YouTube channel, you are giving them money, unless you skip and close every ad. Even then, DGPT can charge people to insert ads directly into the stream and bypass YouTube.

If I'm watching a video I will let the ads play. Advertisers pay for it not me. I'm not forced to buy anything they are trying to sell me.

If I'm giving cash directly to a content creator that is completely different.

 

[JTacoma03]

To be fair, it's not the media folks who have me a bit bewildered. It's the rest of the crowd.

I think the best way is what I posted before - but go backwards (bottom to top) - I think if you add it up that way it will be easier to see the 'why' behind the fervor.

In a sentence, it's because of who took the risk initially (media teams). At risk of oversimplification, this business move claims that the DGPT was taking the risk to create the product, but the media teams were profiting at the tour's expense.

Even the casual fan is seeing through that pretty easily.

No snark perceived. Great point, and I am sure you are correct. Boomer and Gen X should not probably be the target demographic for either. As a Boomer, I indeed find it challenging to understand the entire loyalty issue. I don't even understand the question of favoring one over the other. The only issue seems to be the feeling of entitlement. That the game is entitled to altruistic treatment by anyone in business. I only see the issue as one of companies looking to make money off of disc golf. Maybe younger generations see business as obligated to some greater good. Might even be a great thing. But, I fear those business are in for a rough ride in the real cutthroat world of money making.

Perhaps it is a generational thing, and something I won't get. I'm in a business that has agreements for a set time and, when the agreements expire, the deal is over.

But I come back to, would the converse be true? If you decided that continuing the current business model didn't work for you, would you feel obligated to do it out of loyalty (beyond your agreed time)? Or would you leave, after your agreed time, to pursue more lucrative opportunities?

Here's where it gets tricky - there's much more below the surface in terms of discontent between media and DGPT. I'm not going to lie and say there isn't/hasn't been. I would feel weird just laying everything out in this moment, because I think that would feel opportunistic and like I'm kicking a guy when he's down. My goal in all of this is not to drag on Steve, but rather to show our community colors properly. We stick up for each other when wronged, and I sincerely believe that this is a callous and cutthroat move at this point in time.

The point was well made earlier, but we're all just a bunch of disc golfers applying our skillset, given the ability to do so by the support of our fellow disc golf addicts. Some people are niche-hobby rockstars, for sure, but very rarely does it affect daily life.

It can be easy to look at these transactions as big companies doing business, but in reality it's a handful of disc golfers on handshake deals, hoping for smooth sailing and mutually beneficial relationships. I don't believe our sport is ready for that kind of cutthroat business yet, we're just too small to treat this as a zero sum game.

I will not pay money to support DGPT. My money is limited and I have choose in the past to support CCDG and Jomez and I will continue to do so.

On this note, I learned this year that Superchats on the smashboxx-produced broadcasts were not going to Smashboxx, but to the Tour's bottom line.

 

[JTacoma03]

Reminds me of the DGWT situation where Jussi said they didn't have money to do live coverage of the USDGC. The PDGA offered to put up the money, and IIRC Smashboxx said they'd do it, and Jussi still refused. THEN the DGWT people continued to try to tell us that the money wasn't there, and it became an integrity issue (at least with me).

Y'all may disagree, but I still question Jussi's integrity over that situation, and now we'll see about Dodge vis-a-vis this Jomez offer. You again may not agree, but to me this whole Dodge/DGPT thing is 'deja vu' all over again. And it stinketh. :thmbdown:

Stop perpetuating this lie.

I was physically in the room at Smugglers Notch, DGPT Finals '16, having the conversation with Terry that started all of this insanity. I was the one who called the PDGA to ask. I was the one who then called Innova and Jussi.

There was never an offer for the PDGA to pay for anything. When Terry said that on his podcast, he misspoke. We talked about it afterwards in private and hashed it out.

The PDGA said they would be interested in a discussion, and Smashboxx said they would theoretically go because their calendar was free that week. That was the extent of it. The parties talked it out (USDGC, DGWT, PDGA) at some point after that (I was not a part of that discussion), and decided that for a multitude of reasons it was a better move to pass.

I advocated to make it happen, but the deal didn't come together. Simple as that.

For 2 years now you have insisted on pushing a false narrative that you have 0 first-hand knowledge of, and you've taken multiple opportunities to take shots at Jussi, despite my attempts to educate you on what happened.

You are completely within your right to be disappointed in the decision to not livestream that event, but it is your integrity that should be in question if anybody's, because you unabashedly and knowingly purport completely false information to be true.

Since I was the person that inadvertently started that firestorm by trying to have a conversation with a friend of mine whom I was hoping to get a gig, let me be the one to end it. You're wrong, and you need to be quiet.

 

[Mocheez]

In a sentence, it's because of who took the risk initially (media teams).

Can you explain this a little further? Are you saying there is no risk in quitting your day job to invest a large amount of money into starting a professional disc golf tour?

 

[DiscFifty]

Also, I think this is another case of the vocal majority being the minority in the grand scheme.

So true....whoever yells, gets the most likes, shares, etc, the most...has to be right.

 

[DiscFifty]

If Jomez were to "sell" their brand to Steve Dodge, I figure that would be approx around $1,000,000.

You should take the time to research how much money youtube content makers make.

 

[brutalbrutus]

You should take the time to research how much money youtube content makers make.

He IS a youtube content creator...

 

[ru4por]

Here's where it gets tricky - there's much more below the surface in terms of discontent between media and DGPT. I'm not going to lie and say there isn't/hasn't been. I would feel weird just laying everything out in this moment, because I think that would feel opportunistic and like I'm kicking a guy when he's down. My goal in all of this is not to drag on Steve, but rather to show our community colors properly. We stick up for each other when wronged, and I sincerely believe that this is a callous and cutthroat move at this point in time.

The point was well made earlier, but we're all just a bunch of disc golfers applying our skillset, given the ability to do so by the support of our fellow disc golf addicts. Some people are niche-hobby rockstars, for sure, but very rarely does it affect daily life.

It can be easy to look at these transactions as big companies doing business, but in reality it's a handful of disc golfers on handshake deals, hoping for smooth sailing and mutually beneficial relationships. I don't believe our sport is ready for that kind of cutthroat business yet, we're just too small to treat this as a zero sum game.

I do believe that Dodge's decision is indeed callous and cutthroat from the perspective of the media companies.

In hindsight, do you think it was a mistake to do business in the manner stated in the second bolded part?

While I agree that disc golf is a small niche market, it doesn't seem that Dodge sees it as unready for cutthroat business. Likely, he is way out of line, but that is an ethical issue, not a business issue. Regardless of the size of the venture.

Having been burned in business ventures on handshake and mutual beneficial dealings, I now treat any transaction as contract law and try my best to see it all as big business. After all, regardless of size of the deal, it is always big business to me.

I hope I am not coming off as defending Dodge, cause that is, in no way, my intent. I think he likely handled all of this poorly.

Thanks for your respectful and thoughtful replies, Jamie.

 

[jvphobic]

You should take the time to research how much money youtube content makers make.

REALLY??? I mean, you can question me all you want. But here are some QUICK figures.

Jomez put out 161 round videos last year. At their current Patreon level, that would break out to about $160,000 in Patreon support just for 2019 (give or take a few grand). On top of that, you add in whatever profit they are making in branding discs & product? PLUS whatever they could probably make from sponsors of their videos. My guess is that it is at LEAST a few hundred per event. Plus you factor in their current assets like computers, cameras, RV. THEN give them the YouTube revenue that they make which varies from month to month depending on a lot of factors, but can be anywhere from $1000-$3000 / month. Because I might know a thing or two about YouTube seeing as how I do have my own YouTube channel, I was privy to the DGPT YouTube, and my best friend and partner is The Disc Golf Guy who runs a YouTube channel.

Go ahead and throw all that into some company valuation calculators which will usually give you an industry multiplier. And you will get that their company is worth anywhere from 700K to 1.2M depending on how you factor things like risk.

This is if you wanted to OUTRIGHT PURCHASE the JomezPro company. But their brand has very little value without them busting their ass and doing the actual work. So you would probably have to come to an agreement with them that they stay on and work for XXX number of years as well before they can move on, and that would have to be an additional salary.

Of course they have a lot of travel expenses that aren't figured into this. But, I just estimated those.

I work for a company that has acquired about 20 smaller companies over the past 10 years. While I am not in charge of the actual acquisitions, I am privy to calculations and knowledge of how a lot of it is done.

Now, if you have any additional information on the subject, feel free to chime in. Otherwise, you MAY just want to move along on this one.

Much love.

 

[brutalbrutus]

:clap:

 

[DiscFifty]

Now, if you have any additional information on the subject, feel free to chime in. Otherwise, you MAY just want to move along on this one.
Much love.

I was in my car and it was a quick reply on my part, sorry if it seemed derogatory and demeaning. I also thought I read 10 million, not 1 million. And that was the initial part of my quick response. I have researched several channels with "1 million subscribers" (10x more than Jomez) and the income they make off the channel alone can be very little or substantially more, but that's another topic for another thread.

 

[jvphobic]

I was in my car and it was a quick reply on my part, sorry if it seemed derogatory and demeaning. I also thought I read 10 million, not 1 million. And that was the initial part of my quick response. I have researched several channels with "1 million subscribers" (10x more than Jomez) and the income they make off the channel alone can be very little or substantially more, but that's another topic for another thread.

Ok. No sweat. Clearly the YouTube revenue alone is paltry when it comes to feeding 3 young men. If it were JUST that, then their company value is very small. Most YouTubers make their actual profits off of endorsements. The revenue that YouTube gives you is relatively minimal based on the time that you put in.