This is all I am trying to say. That speed and spin can manipulated independently.
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Do you try to put more or less spin on your disc? Or just throw?
- Thread starter armiller
- Start date
This is all I am trying to say. That speed and spin can manipulated independently.
Well, when asked about this very topic, Nate Sexton and Paul McBeth both said that all the spin you need comes from the disc ripping out of your hand, and that NONE of the tops pros would ever think about spin, unless you are getting down into touch/finesse approach type shots. So....
But you guys keep putting one more variable to think about on it. I am sure that will help with your consistency.
It's in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0gzNIRxRbY
But you guys keep putting one more variable to think about on it. I am sure that will help with your consistency.
It's in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0gzNIRxRbY
garublador
* Ace Member *
But the the technique to throw 5' with a ton of spin is way different than a drive. I'd like to see a video of someone using a driving technique to throw 5'.
It's clearly not impossible if you look at all throws, and everyone who says spin isn't being controlled has excluded those short shots, but I do think for drives that people aren't able to control spin like they think they can. There's no evidence that's happening.
Again, if you're getting the results you want it doesn't matter either way.
So....spin can be controlled, but only for non-drives? How does that make sense?
Where's the cutoff? Only under a certain speed? Distance? Only fan grip shots? Can it only be done with mids and putters? What if I am throwing a short finesse shot with a Boss?
Kodachrome
* Ace Member *
It's a natural to throw a wide diameter lid with more spin at low speed relative to a smaller diameter disc because it's a bigger lever.
F. Howl
* Ace Member *
Just curious...what do you do personally to try and control the spin? Is it an exaggerated wrist curl with a faster wrist speed over arm speed to get more spin?
For the record, I'm one of the ones that don't focus on spin, just a good hit.
Same here. The only thing that factors into both that I have to focus on is clamping down better so the disc rips out more. I'd answer the poll but I have no idea if I'm advanced or not, I'm definitely not advanced division caliber though I can hang with them if they're having a bad day/drunk. :\
Haha, BroD. Sorry for making it ambiguous. I had a tough time picking myself. It definitely does NOT refer to "advanced" division. Whatever you consider advanced or not. Maybe whether you still plan to advance a bunch from your current level?
That's okay, I just lied and said I was pretty advanced because when noobs see me throw they often ask me how I throw my 300' bombs so far. :|
I also said I do manipulate spin because technically I throw a Polecat a lot and add spin when I run the basket with it. But on virtually all other throws (putts excluded) I'm only concerned about angles and power.
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There is always going to be a tradeoff between speed and spin. I don't believe anyone can purposely maintain the same exact release speed and command the spin modulation. You have to change your swing arc to change the spin. I'm not saying that people don't purposely try to control the spin on the disc for some shots, it's just at a cost of speed control.
On distance throws there is the theory that less fingers creates more spin(which I agree with), although I'd still argue that you are changing the arc and really aren't commanding the spin with the same speed(or grip) unless you get lucky. Maybe a disc golf savant could do it.
Most top distance throwers might say that spin is important, but speed should be the ultimate focus and that the byproduct of properly leveraging the disc forward(speed) produces enough spin to not worry about it. For the most part speed and spin rate are linearly linked together up to a certain point of diminishing returns, as the speed gets up near top level, the spin rate can't physically hold up.
On distance throws there is the theory that less fingers creates more spin(which I agree with), although I'd still argue that you are changing the arc and really aren't commanding the spin with the same speed(or grip) unless you get lucky. Maybe a disc golf savant could do it.
Most top distance throwers might say that spin is important, but speed should be the ultimate focus and that the byproduct of properly leveraging the disc forward(speed) produces enough spin to not worry about it. For the most part speed and spin rate are linearly linked together up to a certain point of diminishing returns, as the speed gets up near top level, the spin rate can't physically hold up.
garublador
* Ace Member *
My guess is that you can only really control it on shorter approach shots. Think about how you would control spin, you'd change your release point to add rotational speed rather than linear speed. You try to whip one edge of the disc around rather than forward (or vice versa). Doing that on a short shot where your hand is moving relatively slow and you can choose when the disc exits your hand is relatively easy. On a drive the release (rip) and hand movement are both very fast and usually incidental which means controlling much of anything is very difficult. Sure you can make the hit feel different but you have no way of knowing how exactly it affected speed and/or spin without measuring it. My guess is on those shots people are changing speed and spin together as well as nose angle and wrist roll all at the same time.
storm_32123
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One of my favorite things about disc golf is that people flourish in this game where their natural talents or interests are. I like to study and apply bh technique, so much so, that I taught my non-dominant arm to throw bh to supplement my rhfh.
I've read at least two other threads where multiple people championed the "spin-control" camp, but were basically told that their technique was a waste of time. I'd like to hear more about how one manipulates spin, the effects of this technique on varying discs, and the applications from those who claim to have this skill set.
I've read at least two other threads where multiple people championed the "spin-control" camp, but were basically told that their technique was a waste of time. I'd like to hear more about how one manipulates spin, the effects of this technique on varying discs, and the applications from those who claim to have this skill set.
Spin control is one of the most under-rated and least discussed 'advanced' skill in flying disc sports. It's one of the only ways to intentionally stop a disc on a dime or control the extreme fade of higher speed discs.
I don't know. I just spin it harder. That's the only way I know to describe it. I don't even know what you mean by " exaggerated wrist curl".
It feels like it mostly has to do with my grip at the point of release. Tight grip and force the disc to rip out gets the loud snap and more spin. For less spin, it feels more like I am opening my had to let the disc out.
Yes, ok, spin is nearly impossible to control without changing anything else to the slightest degree, I'm sure other things are changing slightly. But I don't agree that it's so difficult to do on a drive that you cannot consistently use it to your advantage, or so miniscule that it has no effect. I don't need data and an experiment to tell me what my eyes have been seeing for 20 years.
The old guys get it. Maybe this just seems obvious to me from all the childhood years of throwing frisbees, where spin control is even more of a factor than discs.
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F. Howl
* Ace Member *
Haha...I actually really like this explanation. I try to focus past the mechanics, and just envision the results.
What I meant by "exaggerated wrist curl", is bending your wrist so the disc is actually touching your forearm (like you were impersonating a T-rex). Doesn't sound like that's what you do, though. Opening the hand, vs letting it rip out kinda makes sense....
I'll leave this here, anyway. In case some of you are doing the T-rex to impart spin (which, for putting at least, actually does work for me...)
https://youtu.be/U0gzNIRxRbY?t=3m47s
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SonicGuy
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In my experience, the more spin I try to put on the disc, the less spin actually goes on the disc. I agree with those that say spin is directly attributed to hand speed and not an intentional "snap".
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Doesn't matter what you throw out there, success ultimately depends on the spin you put on it... just ask any politician.
garublador
* Ace Member *
I also don't believe that anyone has the ability to measure the RPM's on a disc they just threw that's flying away from them at 40MPH and spinning at 30 revolutions per second. You may assume that's what's happening, but no one has been able to show it.
Neither did Shaq when he declared the world was flat.
I don't get where the disconnect is here.
Go play catch with a lid and throw 2 passes, one that is barely spinning and one that is spinning super fast, where they both have (ok, roughly) the same speed and release angles.
Do we agree that is possible to do?
If we do, then how can you argue that it's impossible to do the same thing on a drive? Obviously, you aren't going to go from X rpm to X*10 rpm on a drive, but to say it can't be intentionally raised and lowered enough to affect the throw seems illogical.
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