drk_evns Backhand Form Thread

[drk_evns]

Alright. I'm crawling out of my winter hole and finally starting a form adventure thread for 2019.

I've come a long way since last year. Seeing improved balance and off arm mechanics (also I lost about 80 lbs lol). I haven't done field work in months because I don't like practicing in the snow, but I'm more eager than ever to get back into it.

Here's me in my garage today. No practice for weeks and starting fresh. Feeling better than ever in my form and want to hear what you guys think. These were pretty slow walk ups, just trying to ease back into it. What should I focus on this year?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

One of the reasons that I have ditched the forward punch, is that it is very hard to avoid what is happening in almost all your throws, which is you get the disc to the left pec/left elbow and it feels like it's the best spot to leverage the disc.

head out of alignment
plant foot looks a bit too open
settle deeper onto the front side, let that rear knee track forward .

 

[drk_evns]

One of the reasons that I have ditched the forward punch, is that it is very hard to avoid what is happening in almost all your throws, which is you get the disc to the left pec/left elbow and it feels like it's the best spot to leverage the disc.

head out of alignment
plant foot looks a bit too open
settle deeper onto the front side, let that rear knee track forward .

When you say settle deeper, do you mean allow the upper body to stack sort of behind the leg/knee/hip joint? I noticed mine is sort of continuing over top of the brace. I feel like everything would be closer to correct if my spine was stacked behind my hip instead of leaning over it.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

When you say settle deeper, do you mean allow the upper body to stack sort of behind the leg/knee/hip joint? I noticed mine is sort of continuing over top of the brace. I feel like everything would be closer to correct if my spine was stacked behind my hip instead of leaning over it.

Exactly: stack the weight behind the frame.

 

[sidewinder22]

If your front leg gave out, you would face plant because you are collapsing/going over top your front leg/hip or ski.

Watch how Wiggins falls when his foot slips, falls upright and butt first.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133595

 

[drk_evns]

That's an adjustment I can make!

I just recently got my balance in the backswing and x-step. I think that torso/upper body position is a remnant of my "old" balance.

 

[drk_evns]

@HUB when I think about my off arm, it's sort of just inactive until the backswing peaks. The reachback sort of automatically loads the arm into that position. After that my only active thought is "swimming" backwards.

It looks like a punch, but it's really just along for the ride on my side until it swims.

I see what you mean about the left pec power pocket. Whorls you say Drew Gibson does the "correct" version of what I do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slowplastic]

I see what you mean about the left pec power pocket.

Yep, this happens because your balance/head are aligned to the left leg, so your swing is around this axis in a way. I was that other incorrect comparison picture in HUB's post, and I have fixed my balance greatly. Getting aligned to the right leg, with head stacked to it and moving with me gets the disc out forward much much better. It's all balance and how you move your balance to the right leg...don't push there head first.

 

[drk_evns]

If your front leg gave out, you would face plant because you are collapsing/going over top your front leg/hip or ski.

Exactly: stack the weight behind the frame.

...don't push there head first.

I've been going through the motions inside since yesterday and can feel myself throwing my torso/head forward. Couldn't really be more clear now that you've said it and I'm watching closely. I was all giddy that my balance wasn't lagging behind like it did at the end of last year and wasn't looking objectively at the other issues! I'm glad I know what to work on and I think they are adjustments I'll be able to fix relatively simply.

I'm trying to give it more brace up front and get my torso back and stacked behind the front leg. There are a lot more forces on my plant foot and I can feel the brace stopping my momentum as opposed to allowing it to launch forward. The form/positions feel pretty strange, which is probably a good sign.

I've been doing some hershyzer (at SW's recommendation) to help get my torso upright and between my two legs as opposed to leaning over while I'm moving to the plant. It's a great drill for that, and has been helping my spine stay straight throughout.

Also trying to get my x-step more perpendicular and keeping my eyes on target until last second, but going to focus more closely on those once I've fixed the brace/stack.

 

[drk_evns]

Thought of a question: do you feel your core/muscles resisting that torso momentum forward? Or does most of that get stopped by the forces transferring down into your hip/leg?

 

[deyo7]

Thought of a question: do you feel your core/muscles resisting that torso momentum forward? Or does most of that get stopped by the forces transferring down into your hip/leg?

The latter. Settle it first. Then core powers it. Check out this re-centering video from the "hips" thread. I think it's applicable. Also goes back to positioning - wiggins fall.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Thought of a question: do you feel your core/muscles resisting that torso momentum forward? Or does most of that get stopped by the forces transferring down into your hip/leg?

this video was a response to SlowPlastic, addressing a nearly identical issue.

Not sure on embed with vimeo, but here is my vimeo response:

https://vimeo.com/318297217^^^^^LINK

Also post 710 on his thread: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122316 has a video that helped it click (the idea of skiing backwards into a sideways stop).

 

[drk_evns]

Thanks guys. I'll do some work and get some new video today or tomorrow.

 

[slowplastic]

this video was a response to SlowPlastic, addressing a nearly identical issue.

Not sure on embed with vimeo, but here is my vimeo response:

https://vimeo.com/318297217^^^^^LINK

Also post 710 on his thread: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122316 has a video that helped it click (the idea of skiing backwards into a sideways stop).

Here's the video embedded.

This helped me get into a better mindset for how to get onto the front leg. Don't try to stop yourself with the brace...try to land on the brace, stacked on the brace. That backward tilt happens when you have more and more momentum, I think the important thing is that you can always draw a line from foot through spine and head and it all lines up. That line will be vertical in one leg drill, slightly angled in a standstill shot, and more angled with more momentum in an X-step. But you'll always be aligned with the spine/head to leg and the throwing shoulder ahead of the spine.

The brace to me feels more like a momentum redirection and tight rotation axis, don't try to crash into it like a wall stopping you.

https://vimeo.com/318297217

https://player.vimeo.com/video/318297217

 

[sidewinder22]

The brace to me feels more like a momentum redirection and tight rotation axis, don't try to crash into it like a wall stopping you.

Be flowing water my friend.

 

[drk_evns]

Okay. Usually I hesitate to post video of myself while "working" on things because I feel like I'm doing different stuff every throw and it may or may not represent where I'm actually at with my form. I'm just going to get over that because it's probably hindering my progress and I have more questions than ever! Anyways... on with it.

Here is a shot from yesterday where I think I've made some improvements on the brace. As you can see, I'm slightly out of balance in the backswing because of my x-step that was too big. This is something I've recently been working on, so as I'm working on form it definitely sneaks in every once in a while. I was also sort of letting my off arm just dangle behind the throw. Okay, so those are some heavy caveats, but the bracing and power pocket seemed better here. The Teebird3 I threw had a full flight and landed right at ~410 feet.



Now, based on the hip movement video HUB posted, I have some questions. I have been just experimenting in my house and can get into the position you talk about (pictured below). It feels like my spine is aligned to my front foot and my body is almost bent like a loaded bow. When I'm in this position, my left leg definitely has more room to get "under" the rest of my body and my femur pokes out my right side. I haven't done much actual throwing while trying to accentuate this feeling because I'm having trouble understanding how it fits in. Is this another case of the drill being a more extreme version of what really happens?

The image below is a screenshot from the video above at release. This was BEFORE I started experimenting with the move I'm talking about HUB doing above. It looks a lot more like Gibson's release (also below) than it does the hip thrust forward position like HUB. I'm not comparing myself to Gibson in ability, I just see a lot more similarities in the positioning and wonder what to focus on.

So I don't know what I should be trying to do here. I remember a video of Feldberg talking about that same hip thrust and it also never really clicked in my head. Help me understand what I'm missing here. Not trying to say you're wrong AT ALL, HUB, I just don't understand and want to clarify!

 

[sidewinder22]

Early backswing ain't helping. Left arm ain't helping. Planting too far closed/staggered ain't helping. You aren't really balanced on your front leg. Your foot is rolling over/jamming like SC demos below with closed stance instead of your foot pivoting cleanly from being balanced on it.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah in those still shots of you vs. Drew, your head is aligned to your rear leg/femur and Drew's head is moving with his spine in balance, while he is balanced on the plant leg.

I would work with the backswing and X-step too...the out of sequence or early backswing/"reachback" you are doing is going to make it hard to maintain balance, posture, and leverage for the rest of the throw. If you are out of balance before you're even getting to the plant step, it will be even harder to balance on the plant.

The still shot of HUB is definitely an extreme look, but basically it will feel like your head and spine just move smoothly forward and like there is no jerking motion or anything sudden with your head/neck/spine. If you're in balance the spine and head will feel more constant.

 

[drk_evns]

I'm really struggling with how to address this. I don't know what I should be adjusting or feeling to get from where I am to where I should be.

I know HOW to fix the early reach back and balance issues. So maybe I should just get practice in focusing on that so I can move on to the other issues???

I'm missing something fundamental when it comes to the spine and head being balanced on the front leg in the brace. I feel like it should be so simple, but every video I take of myself seems to be the same. Every time I do what I feel like HUB is doing, I feel like my torso is leaned back too far and my disc will launch into the sky.

Frustrating day in the field.

My shoulder/arm is sore today so I might give it a bit of a rest for a couple days. I think I already pushed it further than I should have because I've been so dead set on getting my form right.

 

[drk_evns]

Watching this again:



How do I get into that leaned back/braced against the front side position without throwing into the sky?