drk_evns Backhand Form Thread

[drk_evns]

It also makes me feel like I have to pull through high (not uncomfortably high, however).


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[sidewinder22]

Hard to answer, that's really a feeling thing. I don't really feel like I pull through anything but I swing the lower arm/disc in and push the disc's weight away from my center.

 

[drk_evns]

Yeah I think that's exactly what I'm feeling. I have to do some field work with it and get some video.

Definitely feel like I've been "pulling" compared to this. I have a feeling this is why my nose gets pulled upwards in a lot of my drives.

 

[drk_evns]

When I first started the hip thrust forward, it was new so it felt dramatic every time I did it. I THINK I'm still doing it, but it definitely does not feel as dramatic as when I first started doing it.

Does the hip movement start to become so standard that it feels "normal" or do you always feel like you're pushing that hip forward and getting that femur pointed out?

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I've also been thinking a lot about the swing feeling I mentioned. I now feel like I'm pulling inward towards the right pec and then I can really FEEL the hit point coming. I've just been releasing my elbow at that point, and it automatically "ejects" out towards the hit. Because I'm feeling the hit instead of forcing my arm towards it, I now have an easy way to know whether the sequence is happening or not. It also happens later than it does with my "normal" swing. I have not experimented with supplementing that outward ejection with my own strength, I've just been letting it happen. Doing it this way puts considerably more spin on the disc than I'm used to.

I think its just that I'm getting deeper into the pocket when I focus on pulling inward towards instead of through it, so now I can feel it a lot more than I could before.

I'm planning on more field work today so hopefully I'll have some new footage to look at soon.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

^^^ Yup, because when you go back to that image of you vs Simon - when he's at center chest (and it sounds like you are now), he's still closed to the target just a bit. Being in that position requires that you wait (what feels like) so much longer than the previous timing, that you really can't add extra power - and it's probably only going to tighten you up if did try.

Does a baseball player throwing in from outfield add power to a throw with their arm? No, they stay loose throughout.
Does a hammer thrower try to muscle up at the last second? No, they maintain the counter pressure and posture so they can redirect all their momentum.

You maintain posture and angles and let the power develop because you've stayed framed up correctly. I think it's important to spend time, if possible, playing long catch with a putter or mid, starting at 100' and slowly spreading out in a big field. It really helps to reinforce the idea that you're not trying to throw it far because your focus is "maintain timing, posture, balance" and not "get the disc to go far" and in that mental framework, the disc ends up going farther.

You see this play out all the time in rounds when you get to a long driving hole, and players tend to let the idea of throwing it far creep into the brain and they throw worm burners, throw-lers, etc - when they hadn't had that issue all round.

 

[drk_evns]

I went and threw for about an hour at lunch today. Not really worth posting the video. I'm still:

planting too staggered
opening the shoulders early
having trouble aligning my head to the front leg
reaching back early

I've been pretty good at firing the hips at the right time consistently, so that's at least a positive. I'm also definitely getting deeper into the power pocket now that I'm actively pulling inward. The only problem is my head and shoulders turning are causing nose up at release a lot of the time. I think I had a few good shots off camera where I did a better job of reaching back on time, and keeping the head and shoulders closed.

I think it's just more field work right? Any other insights for this collection of issues?

 

[sidewinder22]

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133733

 

[drk_evns]

Okay all I'm going to focus on today while throwing is letting my backswing turn my head away from the target and pull it to center, and then keeping it back to allow my spine to move under it and onto my plant leg. On dry runs, if I do this with my head, it feels like my hips and arm fire out in front of me, and then the follow through picks it up on the way through. Feels a little strange actually, but everything feels strange at first.

Every video I took yesterday I did that stupid early look thing and my head is still aligned to the back leg (even when the spine is up against the front leg) jammed against my front shoulder. I have a sneaking suspicion once I fix this and start stacking things correctly, things are going to start falling into place.

SW, I am still very staggered in every video like I mentioned. I'm trying to get a straight stride going to fix that, but I was wondering about the amount of stagger on a hyzer. Is there significantly more stagger when you're leaned over to throw a hyzer? Or is it still mostly a straight stride?

 

[drk_evns]

I said I wasn't going to post the videos from yesterday, but I have a couple from behind that I figured may be helpful. Might be able to identify things that you couldn't in side view:

 

[slowplastic]

When you are taking the plant step, it might almost feel like you're stepping backwards/behind you. Because "straight" to your momentum, when turned back in the backswing, will feel backwards.

 

[sidewinder22]

Watch how Will moves left to right down the teepad and his hips rotate centered, and the front hip clears to the right, so his tush moves down the line.

You are moving your hips and tush more like the AM in the first video in link below drifting away from the tush line, while Will is moving more like the PRO.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

 

[slowplastic]

I think this all goes hand in hand with your head alignment too. Because you drift left and know you need to get your body to that leftward plant position, you push your torso/head there from the rear leg. Your hips also open that way too as SW said, rather than continuing centered down the momentum/stride line and then being braced to rotate centrally.

Basically I think it'll be hard for you to fix your head tilt until your drifting is solved some more, so that it's easier for you to land on the brace leg balanced from the ground up, rather than pushing your head to arrive there.

Perhaps try forgetting that you're "supposed" to plant closed...just stride down the line and land naturally. I doubt you'll go the other way and swing your plant leg around to pre-open up like beginners do. But just try to keep the stride moving naturally.

 

[drk_evns]

Okay, I think I'm doing the butt wipe down the line a little better today?





I've been bracing a little better I think, but my head still looks aligned to back leg. Also so hard to break the habit of looking back early as opposed to letting it get turned back by the backswing. I'm getting there though, things feel better when I do it.

I hadn't really been bracing I don't think. Now I'm actively holding my torso "upright" against the brace and throws are going further and more accurate. I feel like I'm sort of stopping my upper body and the arm is slinging out ahead more appropriately. I also have found I have less nose issues when I'm doing it right.

 

[drk_evns]

Oh I see what you mean now. That staggered plant is taking me off the "pane of glass" that goes down the line, so my hips are rotating to the left of it (in the case of my back view).

 

[slowplastic]

I think that's still refining the same thing though. You can see your final plant step is really to the left in that behind view. I know I was doing that forever and I'm really fixing it now. It feels like when I plant I'm so much more upright and my rear knee can just swing underneath my body easily.

Try to step with your right foot diagonally to the right as it's striding over your left foot. You may have to really overemphasize the stride direction to end up "straight". Standstills also helped me if I forced myself to start in the right alignment, and KEEP my right toes on the ground during the backswing. So many times I would set up with good alignment, then look at video and see that I would lift my right foot and shimmy it like 4" to the left of the teepad as I would come down to plant, throwing off all my pre-set balance. It was very ingrained in me to drift left.

 

[sidewinder22]

Oh I see what you mean now. That staggered plant is taking me off the "pane of glass" that goes down the line, so my hips are rotating to the left of it (in the case of my back view).

Yep.

In your vids you are also pushing the disc back instead of either leaving it still and moving forward or swinging it back like a pendulum. You have no forward pump in the x-step, which puts your balance further back and makes you want to turn your upper body back early before you are planted on your rear foot. I'd play around with the Door Frame Drills and really feeling your butt leading straight forward and the door frame pulling your shoulders further straight back.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133759

 

[drk_evns]

Tell me if I'm understanding correctly:

I want to plant staggered, so my head and torso are leaning towards that spot in order to get my body moving that way, making it difficult to properly align to that leg. Because I'm staggered, my hip turn depth is shallow and away from the "pane of glass."

If I were to get my stride straight, my head would not be trying to lead my body to that position, it could stay back stacked with my leg and spine, and I would have greater hip depth because I'm not falling off the pane.

In your vids you are also pushing the disc back instead of either leaving it still and moving forward or swinging it back like a pendulum. You have no forward pump in the x-step, which puts your balance further back and makes you want to turn your upper body back early before you are planted on your rear foot.

You're right. Really trying to get better at that. I CAN do it correctly, I've done it and feel it when I do. My problem is when I'm thinking about all this other stuff I creep back into that early swing I've always had.

I'd play around with the Door Frame Drills and really feeling your butt leading straight forward and the door frame pulling your shoulders further straight back.

Okay will do. My butt should be leading before I turn back, and right now it's not, correct?

 

[sidewinder22]

Tell me if I'm understanding correctly:

I want to plant staggered, so my head and torso are leaning towards that spot in order to get my body moving that way, making it difficult to properly align to that leg. Because I'm staggered, my hip turn depth is shallow and away from the "pane of glass."

If I were to get my stride straight, my head would not be trying to lead my body to that position, it could stay back stacked with my leg and spine, and I would have greater hip depth because I'm not falling off the pane.

You're right. Really trying to get better at that. I CAN do it correctly, I've done it and feel it when I do. My problem is when I'm thinking about all this other stuff I creep back into that early swing I've always had.

Okay will do. My butt should be leading before I turn back, and right now it's not, correct?

I think that is correct. Also see Inside Swing Drill... see how Will is staying more athletically stacked and centered inside his posture and front foot is moving stacked under head, looks like he could squat or support a ton of weight on his shoulders, where you would tip over. You want to stride targetward to trajectory like moving down a skinny hallway.

 

[drk_evns]

Oh damn I think it clicked for me. I need to be balanced between my legs laterally down the teepad AND front to back.

See Simon advocates for a stagger, but I was just emulating it by throwing myself off balance towards my toes (and a bit forward). To "stagger like Simon" you would be leaned over but still inside your front foot.

Duh. Seems so obvious now.

I'm coming around with my leg in the air like you see all the pros do when I do flat shots inside with a flight towel. Looking forward to field work.

I look more like Will now. I could squat in my brace.

 

[sidewinder22]

Oh damn I think it clicked for me. I need to be balanced between my legs laterally down the teepad AND front to back.

See Simon advocates for a stagger, but I was just emulating it by throwing myself off balance towards my toes (and a bit forward). To "stagger like Simon" you would be leaned over but still inside your front foot.

Duh. Seems so obvious now.

I'm coming around with my leg in the air like you see all the pros do when I do flat shots inside with a flight towel. Looking forward to field work.

I look more like Will now. I could squat in my brace.

Simon is a ninja and can do things other mortals can't and has literally been throwing since he was born. I think it also helps being skinny and lightweight so he can manipulate his CoG much easier/quicker. His backswing is still inside/underneath his head. He also doesn't stride nearly as far which makes it much easier to maintain balance. He strides his front foot more circular /inside-out with his whole body turning back.