drk_evns Backhand Form Thread

[drk_evns]

Is the example on the left next to Simon an "acceptable" position? Should I be aiming for that first? ie - centered between my legs

 

[sidewinder22]

Is the example on the left next to Simon an "acceptable" position? Should I be aiming for that first? ie - centered between my legs

Lol no, that is definitely not what to do, his leg is through the wall, that's a total outside everything backswing.

Keep your front foot striding right under your head or slightly inside.

 

[drk_evns]

My positioning looks more like simon's than will's. I should be aiming for will's though, right? Head over the right foot?

 

[sidewinder22]

My positioning looks more like simon's than will's. I should be aiming for will's though, right? Head over the right foot?

It really depends on your trajectory or line shaping and flexibility. The only thing that really matters is maintaining upright balance.

 

[drk_evns]

^^^ that makes sense. Now that I'm experimenting with getting my stride straight again, I'm starting to see the errors I was making more clearly (also helps to have you guys pointing them out lol)

I have this new theory about what was happening when I stepped super staggered.

I think I was essentially cutting my momentum off. I would create this momentum with my run up/x-step and then get off balance and push my CoG to the left in order to take that big stagger step. I came off the "pane of glass" with my hips, and cutting off my momentum was enough to get the disc to release relatively straight... usually. I had a few throws recently that I griplocked and went about 500'. I think that's because the hit point is still way to my right. I would come off the "pane of glass," and cutting off my momentum, but I was also cutting myself off and essentially blocking my ability to throw to the hit point. When I griplocked, my release was closer to the actual hit point.

So, like you said, a straight stride is the solution. If I don't throw myself left of my trajectory, I should be able to swing normally and get to the full hit point without gridlocking.

I don't know if I articulated that well at all, but I think it makes sense.

 

[drk_evns]

Had the chance to throw ~50 times today at lunch. Just wanted to get some throws in while thinking about a straight stride.

It's working.

I can feel how I get all knotted up when I have my legs staggered. When I get the stride straight, I feel more like I'm redirecting that energy as opposed to stopping/jamming into a wall and releasing out.

I was hitting my max distance (~425-440) on straight low lines. I had a few throws that really clicked and I felt everything happening. I feel like I'm standing a lot more upright now.

It's not all good though... I have to actively fight my muscle memory to not stagger step. Same with anything. Just more practice. Luckily, I can tell when I do it now because I'll griplock a little bit as I lean more and more forward into the stagger. I think my theory in the previous post was right. The ideal hitpoint is defined by your walk up, and using the stagger step puts me way to the left of that.

Excited to make more progress. I like having a clear goal and issue to overcome. Much better than being lost!

 

[drk_evns]

I didn't get to throw this weekend because of constant yard work, but I did get to do a little bit of karate kid training.

Turns out raking is a great time to practice shifting your weight and stacking your brace. I was essentially doing an elephant walk and making sure the weight was stacked before pulling the rake through. Well, turns out rakes aren't meant to be used with your hips, it snapped after an hour or so of that...

So I got my hands on a leaf blower, and found that the weight of it really allowed me to feel the brace (sort of like HUB does in that video when he grabs the bench at his table and uses it to really feel the brace). I'm sure my neighbors thought I had lost it...

I really am starting to understand what's happening on a deeper level. I always knew what I needed to do/look like, but I was (not) achieving them in all the wrong ways.

I see now that instead of driving forward off my back foot, I was sort of "riding" that leg into the brace... as opposed to pushing forward off of it.

I also now see just how important it is to keep your eyes on the target as long as possible. It does so much for balance that sets up for shifting on to the front leg... it is also helping me fix that early reachback I have..

That's all for now. Working in the field as much as possible now to fine tune everything. I'll have more video eventually. If not this week then next week. Looking forward to sharing with you guys.

 

[drk_evns]

It's been over a month, but not for lack of progress.

Made huge strides and everything feels better than ever. Playing the best rounds of my life.

I'll get video up eventually, but I'm working on training for a tournament this weekend so form adjustments aren't really my focus right now. After the tournament next week I'll get some video!

 

[drk_evns]

Okay here it is. I've been working on all of this stuff for a long time... hence the quadruple no video post... but it was worth it. I feel myself improving every day.

I think this is the best throw I've ever recorded, so I'm interested to see if you guys also see improvement!

Im here throwing my AviarX3s 300+ on pure hyzers which was not happening until recently.

 

[sidewinder22]

Somewhat better. You are still jackknifing into/over the front hip instead of clearing upright rotationally on it. Note how your front knee fully extends, and shoulder raises and head never changes tilt. You want to get your chin to lead the nose forward quicker. Water would be pouring out of your front ear to the target in the finish, instead of keeping the water in the ear centrifugally to the finish like water in bucket.

Just standstill without a disc and go SLOW and feel your rear foot driving your chin leading the nose forward and clearing the front hip out of the way without jumping the knee into full extension but pushing the front foot into the ground to move the hip. Start with the head tilted over, but then it should change tilt as the lower body accelerates forward underneath the head from the rear foot drive ground up and moving in dynamic upright on the front leg.

Golf vids here will help:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

 

[drk_evns]

Somewhat better. You are still jackknifing into/over the front hip instead of clearing upright rotationally on it. Note how your front knee fully extends, and shoulder raises and head never changes tilt. You want to get your chin to lead the nose forward quicker. Water would be pouring out of your front ear to the target in the finish, instead of keeping the water in the ear centrifugally to the finish like water in bucket.

Just standstill without a disc and go SLOW and feel your rear foot driving your chin leading the nose forward and clearing the front hip out of the way without jumping the knee into full extension but pushing the front foot into the ground to move the hip. Start with the head tilted over, but then it should change tilt as the lower body accelerates forward underneath the head from the rear foot drive ground up and moving in dynamic upright on the front leg.

Is this an issue of not being over the front leg enough? I can feel myself shifting to the front hip, but I was jackknifing super hard in the beginning so maybe I'm not exaggerating that feeling quite enough (the shift of the hips from left to right/back leg to plant leg underneath the head). I can recreate the head movement correctly going slow, so maybe it's just pushing that feeling until my hips are shifting far enough onto the plant leg.

edit: I can see my spine shift from back to front leg when my knee straightens, but it's like it stops early instead of continuing forward all the way to the front hip. I'll keep pushing that hip forward until it looks right.

 

[sidewinder22]

Is this an issue of not being over the front leg enough?

I'd say it's not upright enough on it. I think the issue with your x-step starts on the right foot before your x-step. You aren't driving off it and get wonky/no rhythm on the left leg striding into the plant. The real drive of the x-step/hop starts with the right foot driving your weight/momentum forward. The rear leg just need to get out of the way/hop/gallop/glide over it quicker and maintain forward leverage falling upright into the plant.

 

[Mocheez]

I'd say it's not upright enough on it. I think the issue with your x-step starts on the right foot before your x-step. You aren't driving off it and get wonky/no rhythm on the left leg striding into the plant. The real drive of the x-step/hop starts with the right foot driving your weight/momentum forward. The rear leg just need to get out of the way/hop/gallop/glide over it quicker and maintain forward leverage falling upright into the plant.

I tried your suggestion in another thread to gallop sideways as fast as possible for 100'. It was pretty easy to apply the same feeling to the x-step and the first time I felt my run-up was actually adding distance to my throw. :thmbup:

Your rear leg is getting in the way of momentum. Need to glide quicker over it with more rhythm/gallop of the feet like a horse. Try running as fast as possible sideways/laterally and slightly closed back and forth like 100' as a footwork drill.

 

[drk_evns]

I THINK I see what you mean.

I'm almost slow motion in my walk-up. This makes my x-step like 3 distinct steps instead of one smooth glide of the plant leg over the left. I walk up with no momentum and then step out to the plant like I'm throwing a distance drive. I think If I meet those two in the middle (glide through the x-step and find a nice length for the final plant) I'll be closer to upright on that leg. I think I'm used to reaching out with my front leg because I was very off balance in the backswing before. Now that I'm getting more balanced, I'm still reaching with that step instead of letting it glide into a nice natural spot to stack my spine on top of.

I can feel my head tilting back going really slow and the only difference is a consistent speed and a smaller plant step. The motions feel the same, so I feel like I'm on the right track. Thoughts?

 

[sidewinder22]

I THINK I see what you mean.

I'm almost slow motion in my walk-up. This makes my x-step like 3 distinct steps instead of one smooth glide of the plant leg over the left. I walk up with no momentum and then step out to the plant like I'm throwing a distance drive. I think If I meet those two in the middle (glide through the x-step and find a nice length for the final plant) I'll be closer to upright on that leg. I think I'm used to reaching out with my front leg because I was very off balance in the backswing before. Now that I'm getting more balanced, I'm still reaching with that step instead of letting it glide into a nice natural spot to stack my spine on top of.

I can feel my head tilting back going really slow and the only difference is a consistent speed and a smaller plant step. The motions feel the same, so I feel like I'm on the right track. Thoughts?

Sounds like right track, should feel like it's in dynamic balance.

This following is not directed at you, but just general rambling for anyone...
The x-step is almost like a ballerina dance move when done the most efficient way as the rear foot kicks the can forward behind the front foot which starts spinning the lower body away from target like figure skater. It's much easier to turn the hips/pelvis back when airborne because the foot is out of the way. Turning the hips/pelvis back with the rear leg on the ground and landing behind the foot is much more restrictive and harder which is why many ams end up running backwards and never load the swing back in sequence inside/in front of the foot/instep and can't make the forward move off the rear foot quickly/efficiently from the ground up.

You can think of the x-step as simply turning your body further back out of the way to create space/time for a longer swing from your center, rather than trying to create linear speed into the throw. Linear speed has serious diminished returns from a standstill/one-step because it moves your center further back and forth as well as the disc which decreases acceleration between them, but can increase the stretch/swing distance. Compact shift can be accelerated much faster and F=MA and force dissipates over distance. If the intention is to make the swing longer from your upright center, then you will automatically rotate more, rotation is not the intention but happens and gives you longer space/time to accelerate the disc back forward.

Leaning back/folding posture moves your center back and forth like the washing machine with the clothes all on one side and wobbles around which is counter productive slowing rotation down and making everything less efficient. Which is why staying in dynamic upright to the swing plane is critical to swinging from your center. Long toss drill in baseball you make the swing longer and looser from your center, which makes it faster and effortless. GG exploits his swing from center better than anybody with his balance and posture.

Note how Walken keeps his eyes targetward while the pelvis fluidly swivels back and forth as he hops and switches cross steps and then turns the head and folds his arms into the center as he pirouettes quickly. The x-step needs to be done that way with focus on the target and then allow the torso and head to turn back with the arm swing. If you don't allow the head to turn back/forth with the backswing and forward swing then you will severely restrict your range of motion and speed. In One Leg Drill you should feel a big difference in the arm whip force and range of motion if you try to restrict head movement vs turning it fluidly.





Espen is hopping and spinning counter clockwise in the backswing. I'm getting ready to go airborne to perpetuate my spin clockwise doing the Olympic Hammer Drill Spin with arms out(arms folding in increases rotational speed). Look at the perfect posture & balance and the legs/feet.

 

[billyjacko]

I tried your suggestion in another thread to gallop sideways as fast as possible for 100'. It was pretty easy to apply the same feeling to the x-step and the first time I felt my run-up was actually adding distance to my throw. :thmbup:

I heard Uli talking about using the x-step/run up to push the disc out where your throwing, and I thought that was an apt way to describe it.

 

[drk_evns]

Haven't played/practiced much this summer. Had to cancel a few tournaments unfortunately, but it looks like the schedule is starting to open back up! Got a State Doubles tournament coming up in October.

Let's see what you guys think about this quick video I took the other day. What do you see?



Still thinking I'm a little heavy on the x-step. I tend to do a slow walk up when I'm thinking about form which causes me to not be light on that foot if you see what I mean. Also not sure I'm shifting to the front leg enough yet before the hit.

 

[UhhNegative]

To be fair, being light on your feet in sand is pretty difficult.

Your form is too good for me to critique

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, looks pretty good overall, better than most, especially considering it's on sand.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Rear leg looks good which shoukd mean that your shift is good.

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