Equal Pay for Male and Female Pros?

[JC17393]

Makes me wonder, have there been any top women pros in DG play in the MPO division?

Yes. And they've even cashed on occasion.

Cat did it a few months ago at King of the Hills. Also did it last year at the Valentine Classic, and she cashed.

More often than not, they're not choosing to do it for novelty or a bigger payout, they're doing it because they're the only (pro) woman at the tournament. I know pro women who have competed in Advanced or Intermediate due to a lack of female competitors as well...and won.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Makes me wonder, have there been any top women pros in DG play in the MPO division?

Julianna Korver cashed at USDGC in 2001.

 

[rickles]

Yes. And they've even cashed on occasion.

Cat did it a few months ago at King of the Hills. Also did it last year at the Valentine Classic, and she cashed.

More often than not, they're not choosing to do it for novelty or a bigger payout, they're doing it because they're the only (pro) woman at the tournament. I know pro women who have competed in Advanced or Intermediate due to a lack of female competitors as well...and won.

Great point, never thought of it that way!

 

[ToddL]

Yes. And they've even cashed on occasion.

Cat did it a few months ago at King of the Hills. Also did it last year at the Valentine Classic, and she cashed.

More often than not, they're not choosing to do it for novelty or a bigger payout, they're doing it because they're the only (pro) woman at the tournament. I know pro women who have competed in Advanced or Intermediate due to a lack of female competitors as well...and won.

It happens plenty with the non-touring pro women. Elaine King, Sarah Cunningham on a pretty regular basis (rarely ventures more than a couple of hours from home, not too many FPO players in South Carolina), Barrett White (plays as MPM every now and then). Camila Grunden in Sweden seems to play open a lot, even when there's an open women's field. She's rated ~930 and the other women in FPO are closer to 800 -- sounds like she'd rather see the competition in MPO than win by 20 in FPO.

 

[burdphil]

You can't ask why the women aren't being paid the same as the Open men without asking the same question about the men's Masters division. Why are they paid less just because they're old? It's ageism! Ageism I tell ya!

 

[ToddL]

When we add cash to our tournaments, we typically divide it proportionally based on number of players in each division and entry fee for each division. That gives the FPO field a fair amount of added cash, but their payouts are still small based on lower number of competitors.

For example, $200 added cash:
10 MPO players @ $50 entry: $62 added
3 FPO players @ $50 entry: $19
15 MA1 players @ $40 entry: $75
12 MA2 players @ $30 entry: $45

 

[burdphil]

I asked my wife why she wasn't going to watch the women's World Cup. Her answer is all you need to know.

"I don't care about the women."

Uh... your wife likes to watch men's soccer because the players all look like a bunch of Justin Biebers running around with hipster hairdos. David Beckham et al.

Soccer has become the ultimate hipster sport in the U.S.

 

[Future_Primitive]

I asked my wife why she wasn't going to watch the women's World Cup. Her answer is all you need to know.

"I don't care about the women."

The opinion of one Duggar wannabe would appear to be out of line with the record setting 25.4 million viewers watching on Fox. :doh:

Last year's USA-Portugal men's match averaged 17.3 million on ESPN but added 9.2 million with Univision for a total of 26.5 million. But look for Telemundo to add over a million viewers. Update: Telemundo averaged 1.3 million (1.27M) so USA-Japan with a combined 26.7 million is the most-watched soccer match ever in the United States.

Apparently America cares about the women. :thmbup:

 

[VictorB]

WNBA players are walking adds. its hard to tell what team they play for sometimes!

Premier/Champions League soccer jerseys are the same way. We're just used to our professional football/baseball/basketball jerseys.

Women should get the same added cash pools when they can draw numbers that are similar to the men. You can add a ton of cash to the men's division and draw more players that way. Not necessarily so with women since there are so many fewer than play competitively. When compared to player turnout, I'm sure the added cash pools are comparable ratio wise, if not better, to the mens field.

 

[JC17393]

You can't ask why the women aren't being paid the same as the Open men without asking the same question about the men's Masters division. Why are they paid less just because they're old? It's ageism! Ageism I tell ya!

I'm sure your tongue is firmly planted in cheek with this post, but the difference is that the Masters men are generally more capable of being competitive (read: higher rated) playing in the Open division. A lot harder to feel any sympathy at all for the plight of the 980 rated Masters player not getting paid out as well as he might have in the Open division at the local B-tier.

 

[IHearChains]

Julianna Korver cashed at USDGC in 2001.

I played with Des Reading on my card in MPM a few years ago. The only other FPO entry was 150pts lower rated, so I guess she wanted more competition instead of an easy cash grab. :thmbup:

She averaged better than 950 rating over 4 rounds and finished only 3 throws out of last cash in MPM (9th out of 15). She would've been 8 throws out of last cash in MPO, only 2 throws per round.

 

[grodney]

Julianna Korver cashed at USDGC in 2001.

And averaged 997 for the four 4 rounds. She also played Open in all 4 Points Bonanza tournaments that year: http://www.pdga.com/player/7438/stats/2001

(The cash line at the final full-field USDGC (2010) was 1001, by comparison, so it's not like the 2001 USDGC field was super-weak or something.)

She played Open many times through the years. In 2003, she placed 17th at the A-Tier Mid-American Open, earning 150 points. No detail online, so not sure if she cashed.


Bonus Question for Chuck or Roger: What's the highest single-tournament average rating ever for an individual? Women and Men? 2-round, 3-round, 4-round?

 

[grodney]

And because I'm sure you were all wondering, here is the cash line rating and the field size for all USDGC back to 2001:

Year	Cash	Field
2001	997	122
2002	1001	150
2003	997	158
2004	998	179
2005	997	183
2006	1005	174
2007	1000	168
2008	998	188
2009	1005	191
2010	1001	182
2011	DERP	123
2012	1000	58
2013	1018	58
2014	1008	64

 

[in4d]

When he11 freezes over j/k it should obviously be based on the field size.. and if money is added to Open then the percentage size of the open women's field should receive that percentage of the added cash.

 

[DavidSauls]

... and if money is added to Open then the percentage size of the open women's field should receive that percentage of the added cash.

It might depend on who's adding the money, and why. At least, the money above the tier requirement.

I've seen the FPO get a disproportionately higher amount of added cash, out of a desire to help support women's disc golf.

If someone wants to donate significant cash to draw the top players in the world---or even, one day, to advertise to spectators---it would make sense for that to go to MPO.

 

[JNichols]

WNBA players are walking adds. its hard to tell what team they play for sometimes!

Because if they DIDN'T do the Advertising, they wouldn't make hardly anything. STARTING at around $35,000 a year, WNBA players have to be in the league a number of years before Maybe doubling that. NBA guys are drafted out of High School to make Millions?

All it tells me, honestly, is that Women in Professional sports are More Committed to their game of choice. If you offered Labron $72,000 a year to play, I Guaran-Damn-Tee he would find another line of work.

Could McBeth become the Player he has become IF he was making the payouts that Women get? Could he Afford to be a touring Pro and play ALL the Tourneys, travel, etc? Or, more so, would it be Worth it doing it for next to nothing?

Another point of subject on this topic. I recently watched footage of an A-Tier tourney that had a Mixed 1st round lead card. One Woman with 3 Men. The footage was being commentated by one of the Lead Card players and the videos producer. I cannot COUNT how many times BOTH Men talking over the video made comments about, "Oh, what Great Distance, FOR A GIRL." "What a Nice Line, FOR A GIRL." At one point the commentator that was On the card makes a comment like "She put a Huge throw on that. I was worried she out drove me."

We can talk about Women not being as fun to watch, no one wants to see it, they aren't as good as the Men, etc. I think a great deal of the excuses lie in the fact that the Dudes are Threatened by the Chics, that maybe could beat them.

I, personally, think the Women in Disc Golf are evolving with the Sport to fit what they have to offer/need, more so than the men are. ESPECIALLY with the Lower number of Women involved in the sport. I HOPE the time comes that Women in the Sport get Paid the same as the Men. I think it would draw more Women to try and achieve becoming a Pro/Touring Pro AND Help Grow the Sport.

But, that's just my 2 Cents. I am a Guy, though. :doh:

 

[JC17393]

All it tells me, honestly, is that Women in Professional sports are More Committed to their game of choice. If you offered Labron $72,000 a year to play, I Guaran-Damn-Tee he would find another line of work.

Could McBeth become the Player he has become IF he was making the payouts that Women get? Could he Afford to be a touring Pro and play ALL the Tourneys, travel, etc? Or, more so, would it be Worth it doing it for next to nothing?

I can't agree with the quoted parts. Lebron would play for $72K if that was the going rate for an NBA player (i.e. they all get paid in that range). If he was getting $72K and players elsewhere in the league were getting six and seven figure salaries, yeah maybe he seeks another line of work (or at least to get out of a deal not paying him like his peers). $72K might not support a lavish lifestyle, but it certainly is enough to live on.

We have women surviving on tour that make the payouts that women get, so I'd argue that McBeth could make it work too. Might not be touring in a sweet RV like he has, but he'd probably be grinding it out the same way many of the touring women do. A lot of them, men and women alike, aren't staying on the road exclusively on their prize winnings...they're getting outside support from their sponsors, families, and the kindness of other players.

That's not to say I wouldn't love to see women's purses increase, but until there are enough women playing to fill events with the same numbers as the men, there is going to be disparity in the payouts. It has nothing to do with who people want to watch or skill level or efforts required. It's purely a numbers game. It's not really comparable to things like women's soccer or basketball, in which the salaries/prizes are generated by ad and spectator revenue rather than entry fees paid out of the pockets of the players themselves.

 

[JNichols]

I see what you are saying, JC. But, it also brings up what I am saying....

"$72K might not support a lavish lifestyle, but it certainly is enough to live on."

"I'd argue that McBeth could make it work too. Might not be touring in a sweet RV like he has, but he'd probably be grinding it out the same way many of the touring women do..."

Living a "Lavish" lifestyle, or touring in a "sweet RV" vs. SURVIVING. The comparison seems offset, to me. That is the point I was getting at, overall.

I know NONE of them LIVE off of Payouts only. They have Sponserships, do clinics, and other things that net them some revenue. I would also Assume though, and I am Assuming, that the Women do NOT make as much in Sponsership money, or ANY other revenue pertaining to Disc Golf, as the Men.

 

[simpletwist]

There is no sport that I can think of where men and women are equals with regards to pay out. It's a fact and there is nothing on the horizon to change that. I voted not until the interest in women's sports equals that of the men.

 

[corin_brown]

All it tells me, honestly, is that Women in Professional sports are More Committed to their game of choice

This, all day long.