First form check!

[sidewinder22]

Hershyzer 2 - Easy to see issues here, your front foot leads/reaches ahead of your CoG, and you open up into the plant. Your front foot also never even touches the wall on first part.

1. Rear foot should be flush against the wall/leveraged against it. You are over-turned back from your rear foot, and also not getting much leverage from wall.

2. Need to really keep the front foot back while your center leads uncomfortably into fall. You have to really trust that your front foot will swing ahead at last second to catch yourself while still turned back.

3. When you stepped out from wall and started from hershyzer 1 position, you just stepping back, while you never sat into the setup stance before moving. Bend your knees and hips and swivel/shake your booty a little before moving targetward. Note how my rear hip is setup leveraged forward of rear foot, while your rear hip and CoG is way behind your foot. My CoG leads the stride and the head and foot lag behind and bow/stretch. Your right knee starts bending and bringing your right foot ahead of everything.

4. When you plant you should be able to reverse back to starting position.

 

[Brychanus]

Hershyzer 2 - Easy to see issues here, your front foot leads/reaches ahead of your CoG, and you open up into the plant. Your front foot also never even touches the wall on first part.

1. Rear foot should be flush against the wall/leveraged against it. You are over-turned back from your rear foot, and also not getting much leverage from wall.

2. Need to really keep the front foot back while your center leads uncomfortably into fall. You have to really trust that your front foot will swing ahead at last second to catch yourself while still turned back.

3. When you stepped out from wall and started from hershyzer 1 position, you just stepping back, while you never sat into the setup stance before moving. Bend your knees and hips and swivel/shake your booty a little before moving targetward. Note how my rear hip is setup leveraged forward of rear foot, while your rear hip and CoG is way behind your foot. My CoG leads the stride and the head and foot lag behind and bow/stretch. Your right knee starts bending and bringing your right foot ahead of everything.

4. When you plant you should be able to reverse back to starting position.

Ok, going to grind all this.

I wanted to check the bolded parts with you first (lead w/ center uncomfortably, sit, leverage hip forward of rear foot) because they tell me I'm not loading over the back leg/hip cocking correctly and I feel the same thing when I throw, gets worse in x-step. I came off the wall a bit in this one and wiggled and dropped weight into the rear foot. I might be getting the center lead and more rear leg sit, but still appear slightly out of leverage rear hip.

I assume that last part (rear hip leveraged in front of rear foot) will be easier to fix once I put the foot back on the wall.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hershyzer 2 - Easy to see issues here, your front foot leads/reaches ahead of your CoG, and you open up into the plant. Your front foot also never even touches the wall on first part.

1. Rear foot should be flush against the wall/leveraged against it. You are over-turned back from your rear foot, and also not getting much leverage from wall.

2. Need to really keep the front foot back while your center leads uncomfortably into fall. You have to really trust that your front foot will swing ahead at last second to catch yourself while still turned back.

3. When you stepped out from wall and started from hershyzer 1 position, you just stepping back, while you never sat into the setup stance before moving. Bend your knees and hips and swivel/shake your booty a little before moving targetward. Note how my rear hip is setup leveraged forward of rear foot, while your rear hip and CoG is way behind your foot. My CoG leads the stride and the head and foot lag behind and bow/stretch. Your right knee starts bending and bringing your right foot ahead of everything.

4. When you plant you should be able to reverse back to starting position.

Ok, going to grind all this.

I wanted to check the bolded parts with you first (lead w/ center uncomfortably, sit, leverage hip forward of rear foot) because they tell me I'm not loading over the back leg/hip cocking correctly and I feel the same thing when I throw, gets worse in x-step. I came off the wall a bit in this one and wiggled and dropped weight into the rear foot. I might be getting the center lead and more rear leg sit, but still appear slightly out of leverage rear hip.

I assume that last part (rear hip leveraged in front of rear foot) will be easier to fix once I put the foot back on the wall.

Yeah, your rear hip is not leveraged, you got the sit part, but not the butt swivel or twerk part.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

 

[Brychanus]

Yeah, your rear hip is not leveraged, you got the sit part, but not the butt swivel or twerk part.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

Looks like the twerk/booty pop against the glass in the backswing here, ya?

 

[Brychanus]

Focused on rear foot off and on wall and more twerk into backswing tonight. The rear leg loading and rock feels totally different and more like DD into the backswing and setup before the stit+shift. Stay the course or adjust?

Hershyzer 2 to show new booty then 1:

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to turn your rear knee out instead, of pigeon toe'ing in.

Your feet should not really separate much faster than the knees. Also note how much faster my leg is swinging to catch my CoG, my leg is blurred, your's is in slow motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4AGSN1FZuA&t=3m40s

 

[Brychanus]

Kept the twerk, focused on knees, and got deeper into the setup posture more closed to target. I also started focusing harder on staying closed until I land and surrender to the fall which seemed to help the knees. Balance is changing again.

Maybe the rear knee is getting better (?) The front knee really wants to swivel in pigeon-toed before landing so I'll keep getting it relaxed and mind its position in the setup.






This is an old and stubborn issue so I'll keep working on it every day.

This image is on my mind:

 

[sidewinder22]

Hard to tell if you are getting your rear hip back deeper toward the door/heel, or if you are staying too over your rear toes. Talking before you stride, in the setup.

Front foot stride looks better, but you landing open stance, not sure if you are striding to the right because of the desk in the way to remain in closed stance. I'm not talking about foot flare/turn, but stance relative to both feet.

 

[SocraDeez]

From an ESPN Eli short, "Eli Manning goes undercover as a College Football walk-on".




"Let's see those feet, baby. Feet are moving. It's coming back."

Eli footwork/hips GIF: https://imgur.com/S3wn4Vs

Eli footwork/hips GIF2: https://imgur.com/tn6xKYq


What's the point of all Eli's swiveling here as he drops back before actually throwing? Seems kind of overwrought and wasteful energy-wise. Back and forth. Quick, almost-cyclical role transition. Like dancing. One action setting up and flowing into the next until STOP expel the energy/throw the football.


BONUS Content:

Great Michael Lewis article on Eli in the midst of his first season: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/19/magazine/the-eli-experiment.html

One afternoon in early November, I sat with Eli and watched a reel -- it was edited to isolate the "red zone," the turf within 20 yards of the opposing team's end zone. "A lot of good decision making is just eliminating what receiver you're not looking at," Eli said, as he reached for the tape. His goal in life seems to be to not make a big deal of anything; or, rather, he makes a big deal about not making a deal. On the surface, he is a passive creature. By all accounts, he cooperates with his elders, is polite even when he doesn't need to be and hasn't a mean bone in his body. But at his core there is a truculence. He insists on detaching himself from the life story that was, in a way, written for him at birth.

When he talks about being an N.F.L. quarterback, his chief concern seems to be minimizing the drama of it all: "A lot of it is knowing who should be open. It's a process of elimination that starts even before you take the snap. A lot of it just comes naturally. It's hard to teach someone how to feel pressure, for example. You aren't really thinking about moving around in the pocket. You just kind of have to have a feeling for it."

The game itself, up close, is a mess. The formations, the elegant strategy, the athleticism -- when you're right next to it, it's all chaos. The ball goes up in the air any distance at all and the only way you can deduce what has become of it is by the reaction of the crowd. When Eli Manning drops back to pass, if you're standing a few yards away on the sidelines, you have no sense of him doing something so considered as making a decision. The monsters charging at him from every direction are in his face so quickly that you flinch and stifle the urge to scream, "Watch out!" There is no way, you think, that he can possibly evaluate which of these beasts is most likely to get to him first, and so which of them he should take the trouble to evade. At that moment any sensible person in Manning's shoes would flee. Or, perhaps, collapse to the ground and beg for mercy. Yet he is expected to wait . . . wait . . . wait . . . until the microsecond before he is crushed. He's like a man who has pulled the pin from a grenade and is refusing to throw it.

But here's what's odd: not only must he remain undisturbed by the live grenade in his hands, he must also retain, in his mind's eye, the detached view of the man sitting in the pillbox on the rim of the stadium. The quarterback alone must weld together these two radically different points of view -- the big picture and the granular details. For there is no way to react intelligently, in real time, to the chaos; you need to be able to envision its pattern before it takes shape. You have to, in short, guess. A lot. Every time Eli Manning drops back and makes a decision, he's just guessing. His guesses produce uneven results, but he is shockingly good at not making the worst ones. God may know -- though I doubt it -- if Eli Manning will one day be a star in the N.F.L. But if there was the slightest hint of uncertainty or discomfort in the rookie, I didn't see it. The only unpleasant emotion he conveyed -- and it was very slight, in view of the circumstances -- was frustration. The one emotional trait he shares with his older brother is maybe the most important: success is his equilibrium state. He expects it.

The most revealing play of the game occurred after everyone stopped watching. Down 31-7, the Giants got the ball back with 22 seconds left to play. Instead of taking a knee and heading for the showers, Manning dropped back to pass. The Redskins, still high on the novel experience of actually beating someone, blitzed eight men. Manning found his tight end, Jeremy Shockey, for nine yards across the middle, to midfield. With six seconds left and the clock ticking, Manning ran over to the official and called timeout. From any other point of view except for his -- and the Giants' long-term future -- stopping the clock was deeply annoying. The game was over. The news media -- along with Accorsi and the rest of the Giants management -- had streamed down to the interview rooms. The Redskins cheerleaders, freezing in their leather micro-shorts, were hurrying to pack up. Most of the 90,000 fans were gone, and the few who remained booed. But Tom Coughlin wanted Eli Manning to see as much as he could of this very good N.F.L. defense. He wanted Eli to make one more decision, and throw one last pass against the Redskins blitz -- incomplete, as it happened. It was the game within the game -- the education of Eli Manning.

 

[Brychanus]

Hard to tell if you are getting your rear hip back deeper toward the door/heel, or if you are staying too over your rear toes. Talking before you stride, in the setup.

Front foot stride looks better, but you landing open stance, not sure if you are striding to the right because of the desk in the way to remain in closed stance. I'm not talking about foot flare/turn, but stance relative to both feet.

Yup, wasn't quite getting my weight into the rear heel. I can tell my crackly knee is resisting the move even though I know it's safe to settle back. I think striding to plant in an open stance was related.

From an ESPN Eli short, "Eli Manning goes undercover as a College Football walk-on".

"Let's see those feet, baby. Feet are moving. It's coming back."

What's the point of all Eli's swiveling here as he drops back before actually throwing? Seems kind of overwrought and wasteful energy-wise. Back and forth. Quick, almost-cyclical role transition. Like dancing. One action setting up and flowing into the next until STOP expel the energy/throw the football.

By accident of geography at birth I'm an Eagles fan, and this is the best Eli content I've seen in a long time.

Alright, loosened up my knee settling back and moved more in general. I worked on striding staggered closed more like my Door Frame drill:

 

[Brychanus]

I seem to be getting onto and off the rear side more easily today, maybe also a little better mechanically:

 

[sidewinder22]

I think you need to focus on doing the drill properly and setting up. You seem to be combining drills and moving too fast thru the setup.

There is no need to swing the arm in this drill. Or it's more advanced move for later. You want to delay the swing as long as possible, staying closed into the plant and reverse back to setup, then maybe later you can commit to swinging thru to finish.

If you watch your vertical and horizontal motions they are opposite of mine. After I get seated into my setup position, I move mostly horizontal and then late about to plant I drop vertical suddenly as I fall off my leverage point. You aren't really sitting down into your setup position and swiveling your butt before you start moving horizontal so you are moving both vertical down and horizontal at same time and then you start rise just before the plant.

 

[Brychanus]

I think you need to focus on doing the drill properly and setting up. You seem to be combining drills and moving too fast thru the setup.

There is no need to swing the arm in this drill. Or it's more advanced move for later. You want to delay the swing as long as possible, staying closed into the plant and reverse back to setup, then maybe later you can commit to swinging thru to finish.

If you watch your vertical and horizontal motions they are opposite of mine. After I get seated into my setup position, I move mostly horizontal and then late about to plant I drop vertical suddenly as I fall off my leverage point. You aren't really sitting down into your setup position and swiveling your butt before you start moving horizontal so you are moving both vertical down and horizontal at same time and then you start rise just before the plant.

Thanks, I'm with you again Sorry this is a lot of words but I want to make sure what I'm seeing and feeling today makes sense (or fix it if it doesn't).

I revisited some hip content and watched you closely again because I could tell there was still something fundamentally wrong with how I was loading weight into the rear leg in the setup before the swivel because the transition to the shift didn't feel like Swivel Stairs or the Buttwipe. This morning I could find only one move where I felt well-supported and move more horizontally in control before dropping into the crush leading with my CoG. I'm going to write out what I was doing and feeling in the ground pressure and hips this morning since I think it's important to how I move and understand this stuff.

I worked on making the sit and load feel much more like a one-legged squat (I'm not sure that's ideal, but it's how I made sense of it to my body) and tried to feel out the ground pressure and my hips for a moment before swiveling and shifting forward. In the setup, the weight was firmly supported with most of the pressure in the rear heel and I could hang out there comfortably for a bit moving the pressure and hips around a bit. I needed to really exaggerate the feel of moving into a one-legged squat before moving further to achieve this.

Then, I started the swivel - load a bit more back and shift forward like I see in Hershyzer 2. I could feel the rear hip cocking back toward the laundry and slightly up into the swivel, which put my weight deeper in my heel and more toward the rear outstep (like Swivel Stairs). My rear leg felt much, much sturdier and it was way easier to get more horizontal movement before dropping into the crush. When I strode I could feel much more work and support coming through my rear glute than before. FWIW I felt much more dynamically stable off the rear leg and I could probably stride much bigger if I wanted to.

This move overall feels much stronger than anything before and I can tell I'm setting up more "free" torque as I shift, but as usual let's see what else is wrong:




The one-legged squat made me want to share: a year ago when I started PT I had asymmetric weakness in the left leg and specifically in the squat-like sit. I could easily get onto and out of a chair on my right leg. Off my left leg, I would tend to fall too easily and could not get out of a chair at all. My left leg strength has caught up a lot but if I'm on the right track with the "sit" now, I'm sure this has something to do with my trouble with this over the past year. So the drill and continuing to build up the leg strength in general will help in that regard.

 

[SocraDeez]

Disclaimer: again, to anybody reading, I'm not nor do I want to be a Coach. Just a fellow tinkerer reporting for duty.

On the left/ rear leg feeling: let's try thinking about it as the reverse of how your leg works to bear your weight and propel you forward when you walk. First, check out this drill:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck53ztpgIGS/?hl=en

He's not "standing up" from the chair. He's "not lifting, not extending. [He's] rolling." The drill can help isolate the feeling of being propelled forward by your legs without actually "actively engaging" them. It's a lever system. When you step forward, your COM/ torso moves from behind the stepping foot to over it or through it to in front of the stepping foot. The changing relationship or angle between your COM/ torso and foot/ leg is all that is needed to "create" (or at least "maintain," similar to how short distance sprinters aren't running faster near the end but slowing down less quickly than their peers) the energy needed to propel you forward. It's terribly efficient.

Try to isolate that rolling/ efficient leg lever feeling using the chair drill. You do the same thing in your walking gait, and you're probably really good at using this mechanism when you move forward. But in the backhand disc golf swing, you need the rear leg to move like this but backwards/reverse. Can you create the same smooth feeling using your rear leg to bi-pedal walk/move backwards instead of forwards? Also, note how moving backwards like this on the rear leg sets you up more in SW22's rear leg orientation vs yours (which leaks forward/in too soon because you're reverting to the forward walking motion rear leg function).

Not really a drill I guess. Just try to fiddle with the big ideas here. Maybe try walking backwards a couple times a day for the next few weeks? Between the living room and the kitchen or the office and the bathroom etc. At the very least, I wager that you'll get better at walking backwards during that time, and you might get some interesting looks from coworkers/family members.

 

[Brychanus]

Disclaimer: again, to anybody reading, I'm not nor do I want to be a Coach. Just a fellow tinkerer reporting for duty.

On the left/ rear leg feeling: let's try thinking about it as the reverse of how your leg works to bear your weight and propel you forward when you walk. First, check out this drill:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck53ztpgIGS/?hl=en

He's not "standing up" from the chair. He's "not lifting, not extending. [He's] rolling." The drill can help isolate the feeling of being propelled forward by your legs without actually "actively engaging" them. It's a lever system. When you step forward, your COM/ torso moves from behind the stepping foot to over it or through it to in front of the stepping foot. The changing relationship or angle between your COM/ torso and foot/ leg is all that is needed to "create" (or at least "maintain," similar to how short distance sprinters aren't running faster near the end but slowing down less quickly than their peers) the energy needed to propel you forward. It's terribly efficient.

Try to isolate that rolling/ efficient leg lever feeling using the chair drill.

I'm glad you said this - there's something more dynamic/flowy about how I was starting to move off the heel in that last video similar to in the chair. "Rolling" is a good word for it - it's like the whole swivel is rolling more off the rear foot, as is the foot rolling more than I was as I move off it (something like that). So that part is different than just doing a squat for sure even if part of it is sorta like a squat in the setup. The trouble is I can feel a little "rolly" in more than one way.

So this is really important:

But in the backhand disc golf swing, you need the rear leg to move like this but backwards/reverse. Can you create the same smooth feeling using your rear leg to bi-pedal walk/move backwards instead of forwards? Also, note how moving backwards like this on the rear leg sets you up more in SW22's rear leg orientation vs yours (which leaks forward/in too soon because you're reverting to the forward walking motion rear leg function).

This is related to what you said:

Yeah, I'm getting set up better with a lot more support and leverage off the rear leg. But in transition it's still a little too much like a forward walk or slightly pigeon-toed, so my head is hanging back to counteract that. B/c I'm not rolling off the rear correctly, it's pushing the hips a little too open and a little too flat too early. On the bright side the rest of the mechanics are looking a lot better otherwise, especially in the first one.

Not really a drill I guess. Just try to fiddle with the big ideas here. Maybe try walking backwards a couple times a day for the next few weeks? Between the living room and the kitchen or the office and the bathroom etc. At the very least, I wager that you'll get better at walking backwards during that time, and you might get some interesting looks from coworkers/family members.

I mean, my wife is probably numb to it by now but I bet I can get looks from everyone else. I'll try it out.

Here's my last Hershyzer for convenience again. I'm going to tinker for a bit here on the rear leg pending any other input. Will post drill again if I see something improving in the transition.

 

[Brychanus]

My camera was off its rocker in the last image, fixed it in the still image here. Still clear that my head is compensating for the faulty transition thru the rear leg and knee and is showing what SocraDeez was onto:

 

[Brychanus]

Posting immediate effect after your ideas. Kinda nudging the right direction. Will keep playing around.

 

[sidewinder22]

Much better. Keep leading with the CoG/butt more and longer stride/catch.

 

[Brychanus]

Much better. Keep leading with the CoG/butt more and longer stride/catch.

That SC vid is again the right thing at the right time. A lot of this is getting better just by Hershyzer 2-ing but I just wanted to share a couple neat things I noticed:


1. The SC closed foot setup cued some muscle memory from when you had me doing that closed foot sync/sequence drill a while back. I noticed in the comments of the video SC said:

"the one starting with feet together generally produces a bigger and more centered turn in the backswing;"

Doing that move just a couple times before I settle into Hershyzer 2 is helpful because it really emphasizes the center leading the transition and staying closed as long as possible until I land in the plant. It's a little harder to cheat myself when the feet start right next to each other, and it makes it more obvious when I'm cheating in Hershyzer 2. The knee seems to naturally move in the right direction too.


2. SC also said "As long as you feel that you are squatting the pressure into the left ankle with pressure coming from the left hip you are golden"

I didn't really have to think about it, but as of today from Hershyzer 2 my rear foot has started to get more natural feeling pressure flowing the better I felt supported into the ankle. It is also taking more and more uncomfortable pressure or torque off the rear knee and I can trust my leg to support me pain-free. I also feel more plantar flexion than flat-footed as I move more like I'm walking. I seem to be able to shift faster in general.


3. Last, from Hershyzer 2 position, finding the swivel on the rear side that feels like a heave or "levitating" before leading with the center seems to be getting easier each day. Before, I was having a hard time with that without moving my arm into the backswing. I was curious and tried Hershyzer 2 moving in the LHBH direction and there's already much more control, balance, and quickness moving in the RHBH direction.



Going to keep repping for the week working on center/butt lead, staying closed, and bigger strides, then see how it's looking.

 

[Brychanus]

Seems like you are too flat footed on everything and letting your CoG drift too much/not changing directions quicker. Need to resist more on the toes landing plantar flexed/extended, instead of letting your foot/leg collapse.

Not a fan of your backswing on xstep, you drop your arm/disc downward, instead of keeping it at the top of backswing level. Your x-step is weird, you really drop down fast/early on the left foot.

Note how your right femur/hip is angled more open than Simon's, and how much further forward his left hip is and pelvis tilted more aggressive to target. I think that kind of causes a hesitation in your giddy up.

Hershyzer part 2, Double Dragon.

On a drill break I was playing a little with this prep step (step before x-step) transition. In this third to last step, I realized that Simon is getting a lot more stability and leverage from his leg than me all the way to the moment that his outstep loses contact with the ground - kind of the mirror image of my Hershyzer issues.

I was curious and went back to a couple similar dance moves and then tested if I could get the CoG more forward synced aggressively with my pump. It got a little better but I can tell I shouldn't worry about about it too much 'til after doing the Hershyzer/Double Dragon for a couple more weeks. I think my body will let me get the CoG more aggressively leading once the rear side is functioning better.