I believe the rules state that every player must keep score for the entire card. That can be done by any means including rock, paper, Udisc, PDGA live, or on toilet paper. A TD might not like that you are using UDisc but it's allowed. I can see where this might be an option in an area where your fully charge phone gets no signal. If, your entire card somehow has signal, and you don't all you have to do is show the TD the UDisc scorecard after the round. Once again, the TD may not like, but it's legal.
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First sanctioned event--scoring
- Thread starter Naenae
- Start date
biscoe
* Ace Member *
False. The only method that is required to be offered is a paper scorecard. Anything beyond that is at the option of the TD. PDGA Live is the obvious way to go imo. No way is anyone in my event using Udisc which may as well be paper if it is not going to enter the results into the system and reconcile the group's scores for me.
True.
Rule 808.
Rule 808.
- Each player must keep an independent scorecard recording scores after each hole for the entire group. A player who refuses to keep score may be subject to disqualification.
- The Tournament Director must provide a scorecard to each player in the group. These scorecards may be digital or physical, so long as they meet the requirements in 808, Scoring.
RowingBoats
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2020
- Messages
- 929
Seems like there is quite a bit of TD discretion here, the only 'rule' being that paper must be provided/accepted:
How to Keep Score in 2024: Player & TD Guidance
Support & Training's tips, tricks, and best practices In 2024, all players must keep their own official score in all sanctioned rounds, and all players must submit their own official scorecard. This is a significant change from previous years. This document aims to provide guidance for TDs and...
I think you are wrong, as well. Per my bolding above, it seem clear that it is the TD's decision.
We will NOT be allowing UDisc in our A Tier. In some of our lower tiers, I suppose we would accept a picture of your UDisc scoring. As a tournament, we will not be setting up any tournament in UDisc. The scorekeeping would be nothing more than a individual player layout, with the player adding the rest of the card. You would not be guaranteed the proper layout, OB, hazards... Both the paper card and PDGA Live would provide that information.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2012
- Messages
- 2,812
So far this year, in sanctioned events, we've been making sure that two players keep score on the pdga site, and each of the others keep the group's score in any way that works. Scores are confirmed and submitted after each hole. I keep mine on the erasable Discraft scorecard inside my 'clipboard' disc (an old unplayable valk), as I've done for every round in the nearly thirteen years I'vebeen playing (see my scorebook!). We usually have a fourth doing paper. IF the TD wants to see those after the round, they're available. The whole group confirmed that we each kept score. I can't see a TD wanting to even look at the 'old school' items once the scores are finalized and submittd online. We are going by the letter of rules 808 and 1.05G, but not technically the 'guidance', unless the TD asks us to turn in the redundant score sheets.
Dcinmd
Double Eagle Member
That is the issue right there. I have already seen one player miss play a hole (wrong basket) that had the information on PDGA live and had the information posted on the tee sign.
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- Jul 29, 2009
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- 15,683
So, birdie beads aren't an acceptable method for keeping score in sanctioned events? 
Brian McFarlane
Newbie
- Joined
- May 28, 2014
- Messages
- 7
What is the purpose of the rule change? Seems arrogant of the PDGA to require something that, IMO is unnecessary. What was wrong with at least two players on the card keeping score? I have played with many players that don't carry phones with them or their phone is "garbage" and isn't good for keeping score online. Also had a player's phone not able to get reception half way through a round.
Was there a specific issue that caused the rule change?
Was there a specific issue that caused the rule change?
The rule change was long needed, IMO. I have seen a handful or better of VERY upset players at tournaments. After getting penalized a couple strokes for score discrepancies. I have seen the last scorekeeper [general practice was to hand off the scorecard every 6 holes in an 18 hole event] leave with the scorecard on the last round. No way to get a hold of him. I have seen players shave strokes off their own scores when scorekeeping. I have played in a POURING rain with paper cards.....a disaster. Seemed like there was ALWAYS a player or two that simply refused to keep score....for a cavalcade of irrelevant reasons. Two stroke penalty for adding up your score card incorrectly. Yes, everyone was supposed to look at the card and add them all up.....but they did not.
Four players, using digital scorekeeping solves all of these problems. [using PDGA Live] There is no longer a way to have score discrepancies on your card. The app stops you at any difference at each hole and at the end of the round. No pencil whipping to cheat. No player is allow to escape the burden of scorekeeping....all players are equal. It is nearly impossible to forget to turn in scores, the app warns your card mates that a score has not been entered. Pouring rain has significantly less impact on scoring with phones. [we often still hand out quart zip locks at tournament central, on these days] No more manually adding up scores, the app does it for you. Everyone has access to hole by hole, OB rules, pars, distances, while scoring on PDGA Live.
I sure dislike being the guy advocating for phone use on any course, but the rule makes sense in a ton of ways. I have only listed some off the top of my head. Yes, some are reasons for digital over paper. There is no arrogance and while you can have you opinion, I suggest it lacks TD and tournament experience. Outside of a tiny handful of geezers [like me], nobody has garbage phones. This sounds like one of the irrelevant reasons for being the guy to never keep score. Guys losing signal halfway through the round is reason to have everyone keeping score.
Four players, using digital scorekeeping solves all of these problems. [using PDGA Live] There is no longer a way to have score discrepancies on your card. The app stops you at any difference at each hole and at the end of the round. No pencil whipping to cheat. No player is allow to escape the burden of scorekeeping....all players are equal. It is nearly impossible to forget to turn in scores, the app warns your card mates that a score has not been entered. Pouring rain has significantly less impact on scoring with phones. [we often still hand out quart zip locks at tournament central, on these days] No more manually adding up scores, the app does it for you. Everyone has access to hole by hole, OB rules, pars, distances, while scoring on PDGA Live.
I sure dislike being the guy advocating for phone use on any course, but the rule makes sense in a ton of ways. I have only listed some off the top of my head. Yes, some are reasons for digital over paper. There is no arrogance and while you can have you opinion, I suggest it lacks TD and tournament experience. Outside of a tiny handful of geezers [like me], nobody has garbage phones. This sounds like one of the irrelevant reasons for being the guy to never keep score. Guys losing signal halfway through the round is reason to have everyone keeping score.
As a player who won't be using the PDGA App - I appreciate that TDs are required to have some paper scorecards on hand, I also don't expect them to have enough to accommodate everyone. I'll have a nice reusable scorecard with me every sanctioned round, and I do prefer that anyway over asking for a paper one because rain happens and soggy paper sucks.
I wouldn't mind one bit if I was on a card with 3 other people who all used reusable scorecards, and we transferred to a paper one all together at the end to turn in.
One thing is for sure - I won't be caught with my phone out much during any competitive round. Golf is a time for getting away from that, even if I'm playing bad. I don't even want to have to think of my device. Even when golfing on my own I usually dump it all into UDisc after I get back to my car.
Shaving scores. Had that problem with the one guy keeping a paper card in a tournament, the rest of us used PDGA live. On the tee of the next whole this guy routinely miss-counted his strokes. It was the last round, and I had worked my way up to chase card +1. Playing with this guy who was E after 2 rounds, after questioning a few counts on early holes he goes +16 on the final round. Yes, he could have had a bad day, but made me question in my mind, how many shaved holes scores happened in prior rounds? None of the holes were huge blowups, just bogey on a regular basis and a couple double bogeys. This was about as perfect weather for disc golf as you could ask for.
Okay. Interesting. So do you think my plan on using a reusable scorecard should not be allowed? Or that a TD is unlikely to allow it?
Brian McFarlane
Newbie
- Joined
- May 28, 2014
- Messages
- 7
In the past 2 scorekeepers were required and the app would flag the scorekeepers if there is discrepancy, just like it does now. If somebody is "shaving' scores the app would show a discrepancy with 2 scorekeepers. How is it possible to forget to turn in scores when there is 2 scorekeepers that have to submit them? I have played tournaments where the PDGA score app was not entirely accurate on hole specifics, the handout or caddy notes were. I have not been a TD, I assume that TD's do it because they want to and, in some way profit from it. I have played in 35 PDGA sanctioned tournaments - you may have more experience?- I don't think that is lacking tournament experience, I have not experienced the issues that you have, in fact I have found that virtually everyone plays for the fun of it and are not looking to cheat, just the opposite.
Also, I have always offered to keep score with another person in the group. Most of the time there is a person that does not have experience using a phone to keep score or is glad there are others keeping score, that hasn't been a big issue ... in my experience.
The Most Fun Wins!
Also, I have always offered to keep score with another person in the group. Most of the time there is a person that does not have experience using a phone to keep score or is glad there are others keeping score, that hasn't been a big issue ... in my experience.
The Most Fun Wins!
Dcinmd
Double Eagle Member
2 Players using PDGA live solved all of these issues without have to increase it 4.
I think you are spending a lot of energy to simply make a TD's life more difficult. The only way I see for you to submit your erasable scorecard, is to take a pic and send it to the TD. He then has to manually add your scores, verify that they match the rest of your card. You have made room for potential error, where there was none in the use of PDGA Live. The results of your division are delayed, everyone waits longer for payouts, more room for error. You are not availed of the hole by hole OB, Mando's and hazards. Why would you make this your plan? It is really not easier, quicker and has significant downsides for you, the TD and other players.
I think you could FORCE the TD to allow it. I guess that is a win?
Not the unfair practice of some players ALWAYS refusing to keep any score. Not the available Mando, OB and hazard information on each hole.
One of my favorites was a guy, who always refused to keep score, refuting his score at the end of the round. Keeping score in his head he was POSITIVE he had score one stroke less. He wanted the card to sit down and go hole by hole, comparing his head scores to the documented scores. [humorous anecdote, not evidence of anything]
2naphish
Birdie Member
when cell phones first became a thing is just about when i stopped going to tournaments of any kind (or playing in random groups for that matter). that was long before there were requirements to carry one on the course.
As noted above I use PDGA live when possible. I had to reboot my phone twice during the last tournament to fix one bar signal issues. We should all also be aware of PDGA live problems, like crashing during Chess.com?
I recently signed up both my sons for the PDGA. Interesting how they both got these as part of their PDGA joining packages.
I guess the PDGA has a ton of these left over, from days gone by, and doesn't really expect anyone to use them. Giving them away to get rid of them.
I recently signed up both my sons for the PDGA. Interesting how they both got these as part of their PDGA joining packages.
I guess the PDGA has a ton of these left over, from days gone by, and doesn't really expect anyone to use them. Giving them away to get rid of them.
I use them all the time. I play casual disc golf with friends, far more often than tournaments. I have NO real interest in having my phone with me on a disc golf course. I live in Discraft country, so mine are all from them, but erasable scorecards are great.
