Flatpad teepads

[Doofenshmirtz]

There have been sets of baskets stolen in NC for the metal. A course local to me had a bunch of other stuff stolen for the metal that was slightly easier to access than the baskets would have been. I didn't just make it up.

So have people stopped putting in metal baskets in that area? I don't doubt that baskets have been stolen. I know of baskets that have been stolen in my area (two baskets that had been pulled and that were lying on the ground). The questions is whether this is problem in the sense that it would prevent people from purchasing baskets due to the risk of theft. That is what we are talking about with these tee pads.

It seems like, that if installed correctly, Flatpads might be harder to steal than a basket (bulkier, requires a tool to cut the carpet separating the modules, heavy, have to dump the sand off, etc.). One course in my area doesn't even worry about locking baskets into the sleeves because of the hassle of finding the keys when they want to move them to alternate positions.

I just don't see susceptibility to theft as being a factor weighing against using them considering that baskets are much easier to steal and no one seems to raise that issue against their use.

Maybe Flatpads will be successful in the U.S., but I don't think that they will steal the title away from concrete which seems to be a superior tee pad material in all respects except for places that are difficult to access with heavy equipment. BTW, concrete pavers give concrete much more modularity than these pads offer.

 

[DavidSauls]

I don't know how much theft of flatpads would be an issue. But in measuring against baskets, I see 2 distinctions:

(1) There's not a good substitute for baskets. There is for teepads. So we may accept more risk with the baskets, than flatpads.

(2) One flatpad cost as much as a number of baskets, so it's a bigger loss if stolen.

That said, in both cases it depends on locations. Theft is a realistic concern in some places, insignificant in others.

 

[Flatpad]

It's kind of nice that so many of you are worrying about possibility for theft. On the other hand it's directing the whole conversation on completely side track. We don't see that as a big problem in general. I'm sure that we can solve that in any case, if iy would become a problem.

Some details about Flatpad. Weight for one module is about 30kg (66 lbs). This is without turf and sand. We recommend to add 25kg (55lbs) of sand on every module. It will also suck in some water, so the overall weight will be between 55-100kg (120-220lbs) / module. When those modules are connected together + turf is fixed by screws, then the whole teepad is one solid set. So overall weight of Flat 4.2 Pro installed is somewhere between 300-500kg (660-1100lbs). I'm quite sure that it takes some effort from anyone to steal it.

Once more I'm going to comment about raised teepads. I just saw on youtube this 2022 PDGA Euro Tour from Alutaguse. https://youtu.be/yN14VS7fgKU
Practically all of those teepads are raised and seems like they don't have any issues what so ever. So my point remains that it's more of a preference issue than a problem.

 

[jakebake91]

Once more I'm going to comment about raised teepads. I just saw on youtube this 2022 PDGA Euro Tour from Alutaguse. https://youtu.be/yN14VS7fgKU
Practically all of those teepads are raised and seems like they don't have any issues what so ever. So my point remains that it's more of a preference issue than a problem.

You are also using professional athletes, in a professional settings, with close perfect form, as the example.

Not random drunk chuckers. Big difference.


Pretending that the injury risk associated with raised pads isn't greater than ground level ones is completely asinine and ignorant, in my opinion. A raised surface obviously brings in additional variables for potential accidents. If I'm wrong, please show me the science. A few cherry picked glowing reviews mean absolutely nothing.

 

[txmxer]

You are also using professional athletes, in a professional settings, with close perfect form, as the example.

Not random drunk chuckers. Big difference.


Pretending that the injury risk associated with raised pads isn't greater than ground level ones is completely asinine and ignorant, in my opinion. A raised surface obviously brings in additional variables for potential accidents. If I'm wrong, please show me the science. A few cherry picked glowing reviews mean absolutely nothing.

Jake, I think you are being a bit over zealous. There are plenty of traditional tee pads that are elevated.

Not saying there is zero risk, but it's not unique.

 

[Flatpad]

I did a survey in local disc golf facebook group in Finnish so I need to translate it here.

Survey on the condition of the throwing sites.
During 2021, have you experienced any of the following on the tracks in the Oulu area regarding the fairway opening, i.e. the tee pad.

Slip 85%
Trip 9%
Some other hazard 0%
No hazard 5%

At least here were we are located slippery teepads are most common danger. It's mostly due teepads build on ground level and they will stay moist.

 

[ohtobediscing]

This is exactly on point. Concrete can be cheap to built when done as explained. But... You need to have know how and time to go trough the process on making it to happen. Flatpad can be bought and installed without making it too difficult.

Think about basket's. How many of them is nowadays built from wood or concrete because it would be cheaper.

We are thinking of moving on from building teepads on site, to factory built and assembled / installed on site.

Addressing in reverse order :
Surely you don't mean you are fabricating these on site. That would obviously raise the cost greatly.

I've seen baskets made of everything but concrete, including wood. All were done much more cheaply than steel. They did require more effort.

This seems like a "bottled water " solution---instant convenience for those too lazy or impatient who can afford it.

And yeah, addicts will steal anything, even if it is locked down. Concrete doesn't get stolen, and I'm aware of some pads nearly 40 years old.

 

[txmxer]

The tee pads seem to work as promised.

The issues brought up here are genuine, but I think they are all pretty obvious and if someone chooses these pads, they've probably considered these issues and accepted them or found a means to nullify then.

Cost is what it is. If there are places willing to pay it, then it's a solid choice.

 

[jupiterboy]

Yeah, let the market work.

We have some smaller 10" elevated tees at a course around here and people throw from beside them. You could crack ribs falling off the front, and leaping up in the middle of a run-up is dreadful. Everybody knows that. Obvious work around is to make the tees really big, and that seems to be their tack.

Thing about concrete is digging out the roots before you pour. These are going to be well suited for certain situations.

 

[ru4por]

As the sport continues to grow, more courses being put in the ground and more players, opportunities will grow for innovation and profit. I think this is just one product/service that is now being seen. Seems like there is a place for these pads. I am not sure parks and municipalities are the customers. We should embrace new products and innovations. All will come with advantages and disadvantages.

Flatpad has seemed to have heard concerns over price and elevation.

 

[BillFleming]

It's kind of nice that so many of you are worrying about possibility for theft. On the other hand it's directing the whole conversation on completely side track. We don't see that as a big problem in general. I'm sure that we can solve that in any case, if iy would become a problem..

You aren't in the U.S.A. If you park your car outside or even in a parking lot somewhere, there may be a good chance your catalytic converter will be cut off. It happens so much here that there are now places that will weld or otherwise install anti-theft devices to keep it from being stolen. Police are advising that people have their catalytic converters etched with info so they can be identified when stolen and recovered.

So you may not see it as a big problem, but I'd bet one of those tee pads could be stolen with less difficulty and less chance of being caught.

 

[DavidSauls]

That varies from place to place. Like someone else posted, I also know of a public course where baskets aren't locked in their sleeves. Private courses and temp setups on golf courses may not have much concern, either.

Though the dollar amount if they are stolen, is pretty significant.

 

[Flatpad]

We want to make an alternative available to customers, and they ultimately have the decision-making power to choose a suitable solution. We do not force anyone to choose our solution, but we offer a new option alongside the old ones. We hope to see course builders offer customers more options in the future when choosing tee pads. We see this as a good opportunity for builders to expand what they offer to customers and thus be more successful in the future.

Here is a link to a short video from that Tyyni tournament. This particular teepad is temporarily installed on the sandy beach. A really good option for that place.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cfok58iF5d6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[njgrosser]

Where I could see these being used is for a (deep pocketed) tournament series that uses temp courses. Get a set of 18+ (allowing for some FPO only tees) for the DGPT along with a set of portable baskets and you can have a tourney virtually anywhere with enough open space.

I'll admit up-front that I've never designed a course and don't know the financials of installing a course, but I would think this is the most realistic customer for these pads. If the DGPT wants to move toward temp courses that aren't at permanent disc golf locations, investing $50k in these one-time and then taking them to each location may not be the worst idea. Especially if they get the large 2x5 meter one and charge a lot for advertising on the sides.

However, at 2500 euros / $2563 per pad, it still might not be worth it for the portability. Especially if you need to fill each of them with sand every time.

 

[jakebake91]

Jake, I think you are being a bit over zealous. There are plenty of traditional tee pads that are elevated.

Not saying there is zero risk, but it's not unique.

I understand that. My point is simply pretending or saying there isn't a greater risk on an elevated pad is ignoring common sense. Any raised pads is inherently more risky than a level one. My issue here is the manufacturer here saying it's simply a preference thing. It's not.

 

[dmoore1998]

We want to make an alternative available to customers, and they ultimately have the decision-making power to choose a suitable solution. We do not force anyone to choose our solution, but we offer a new option alongside the old ones. We hope to see course builders offer customers more options in the future when choosing tee pads. We see this as a good opportunity for builders to expand what they offer to customers and thus be more successful in the future.

Here is a link to a short video from that Tyyni tournament. This particular teepad is temporarily installed on the sandy beach. A really good option for that place.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cfok58iF5d6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

This would seem to be the sweet spot for the product...a temporary pad that's a big pain to put in a cheap/permanent pad for due to location...that you can safely tuck away once the event is over. That's probably more likely than a course full of these. The question will be whether there's a sufficient market for that kind of one-off needs. It's hard for me to imagine there is...but I hope I'm wrong because that means a lot more variety of DG available.

 

[Flatpad]

When you think about how much the best players earn each year, you would expect to spend significantly more money specifically on the development and construction of courses. We think that for competition use, the appearance of the tee pads is one important factor. Of course, the most important thing is a safe and level platform for throwing. There is also a certain risk for the sponsor if an athlete is injured due to a bad tee pad. That is why it is very important to pay more attention to these things as well.

Our teepads meet the requirements given for competition use in terms of size and safety. Other features, such as portability and the possibility of advertising, are new opportunities for competitive use as well. Of course, a more advanced product also costs more.

Sand is cheap to add each time separately, but of course, if necessary, most of it can be recovered when the platform is dismantled.

 

[Rastnav]

I understand that. My point is simply pretending or saying there isn't a greater risk on an elevated pad is ignoring common sense. Any raised pads is inherently more risky than a level one. My issue here is the manufacturer here saying it's simply a preference thing. It's not.

Well, the question of whether the associated risk is disqualifying is a preference/trade-off. I think the manufacturer is being a little overly defensive here, but there are definitely trade-offs to consider.

The infamous Kevin Jones "slip ace" is an example of a tee with a significant drop off that is designed into the hole/not mitigated. That hole at The Fort from Worlds last year is another (ridiculous) example.

Even concrete pads aren't necessarily ground level. My home course has concrete pads that are mostly ground level, but some of them have eroded so much that the entire pad height is above ground.

 

[jupiterboy]

Maybe the point is that height needs to be minimized within engineering limits, and taller tee pads need to be larger.

 

[coupe]

Even concrete pads aren't necessarily ground level. My home course has concrete pads that are mostly ground level, but some of them have eroded so much that the entire pad height is above ground.

That's a course maintenance issue, not a design issue. Given a similar level of neglect over a similar number of years, is there anyone who honestly believe that the area around a Flatpad would not experience a similar degree of erosion?