Form check 2023 - Sykern

[sykern]

Hi.

After some years i feel it was time to get some opinions in regards to my form.

I have bought a net due to time constraints and no field within walking distance.

Here are some footage from today (Normal don't think about stuff while throwing form):

https://youtu.be/mbWTbeTpn0g
https://youtu.be/yfUGM2Q3D48
https://youtu.be/7kvUAoMeXgU


And one from behind from a couple of days ago:
https://youtu.be/Z9fi2tE-jEQ
(Here i was doing more backleg and trying to tilt the disk to get closer to the body)

The last weeks I have consumed way to much technique tips from different online coaches and I feel the need to get some direction.

If you see videos from just a week ago on my YouTube you will see that i mainly focused on "backleg" throwing, which I felt helped me getting a better feeling about weightshift. At the same time it results in me getting no followthrough with my leg. That said the porch is like a suction cup, on grass I think it's another story.

From today I focused on being relaxed and easy on my toes. Getting over the disk and using the offarm to iniate the throw.
But now I see the brace leaking? Is that an issue at that stage in the throw?

I atleast feel a tension/coil now.



Last season i threw about 420/430 consistently with not too OS 11/12 speeds.

I want to spend a week or two more on pure form before starting the season and doing rounds.

So o wise folks of dgcr. Tell me what I am doing right and wrong and what I should be focusing on moving forward.

 

[Brychanus]

Heh - just replied to you on Reddit & will be interested to see where others would recommend starting you off here.

 

[sykern]

Oh hi! I really appreciate your help! Just saw your post on reddit. Can't wait to try som more!

 

[sykern]

From today 23.03.23:

https://youtu.be/cTk7A90zV3I
https://youtu.be/m-EfLZGw1Ts

 

[Brychanus]

A little better. I'd record more 90 to tee than your first video.

I think I still see signs of that "spin shift" off the rear side. It feels efficient and powerful, but it's not the fastest and most powerful shift and usually makes the plant brace weaker/less consistent. You want the feet to evert ("roll") more like in this drill:




Here's Paige's older form where you can see that the rear foot deweights and moves off the ground much more freely than yours in the shift. It allows her to *drop* more directly onto that plant leg and resist harder against the ground, giving her more power. It still works like that or swivel chair in her modern form. I know there's a lot of confusion out there right now about hype for "rear leg" vs. "front leg" throwing. Don't worry too much about it - just learn to shift and drop with this action.



https://youtu.be/i26nO6yus4E?t=46

 

[sykern]

I will focus on doing the shift and drop.
I have been trying to do the crushing of can, but I see that I do not do it in the same way as PP. She indeed drops more into it than I am.
I will try to not make a habit of rotating the backside inwards.

You sir are a legend!
Thanks again!

 

[sykern]

I was going through some of my recent sessions and noticed something from when I was filming some throws on a shorter hole about 200ish feet long.

Here I see that I am throwing with a better brace.
But what sticks most out to me is the throwing arm. I get really forward in the powerpocket.

I remember doing the "swim move" that drew does and it felt really good. As if the offarm helped ground the center of gravity around the rotation. I attributed it then to the backleg. But i think it may be a combination of pulling with intention of hitting a line with the "swim move" . The brace might be working due to the relative low effort.

But i think the disc have a long way to accelerate while basically feeling effortless might be worth pursuing.

Any thoughts?

https://youtu.be/FH9daNV2nRU
https://youtu.be/fSQBht8C18Y

Should i try to emulate this throw more than the previous examples basically?

 

[Brychanus]

You have a couple big fish to fry my friend. I'm going to give you a lot, but in the end I recommend you focus on posture and standstills at least until you get some of the hip and posture stuff sorted out. Most of the people who ignore, don't understand, or don't take the time to learn and apply the posture advice (including me for quite some time) end up needing to deal with it later. I've seen a lot of people around here get stuck on it for months or years if they don't attack it head on. YMMV.

There it still looks like your brace is emphasizing stopping forward momentum, but your hips and legs and posture aren't getting the most powerful swing. You are in what I call "Flatville." Learn about The Hips. Use natural motions to break the flatness and get more curvature in the swing.


Keep redefining the way you think about the "brace" to be more "what legs and posture do for you when you land stacked on the plant leg." Right now you look like you get the common error in the form of a "horse stance" with a "collapsing pocket" ("rounding").

Like sidewinder22, I've learned within and become a fan of working in a full range of motion first. The idea is that you want to maximize what you get out of a full backswing and weight shift, then for upshots you can either (1) slow it down or (2) reduce the size of the backswing and shift (which is what most top pros tend to do). But I can point out the important points with your upshot form there. Here's you vs. Simon. Simon is throwing a ~250' upshot here.

1. You have too much S curve in your spine and too much anterior pelvic tilt. Simon's has a bit of natural curve. Your hips are too flat relative to the ground and your rear knee is leaking behind your rear ankle. Simon's body is leveraged ahead of the rear leg with his ankle outside his knee, and his body is drifting forward into the plant. Learn the Power of Posture.

2. Since you're coming off the rear side too flat, you end up overextending your plant leg to brace your momentum, which is moving too parallel to the ground. Notice how Simon is still canted more toward the ground with his leading knee just a bit ahead of his leading hip.
https://youtu.be/qwy1HNMfhbk?t=578

3. Next, your leading shoulder collapses and your rear arm drags behind, and you're slow getting off the rear foot because of the horse stance. Hips are mostly still sliding forward toward the target (watch your video in slow motion).

Beat the Power ("Horse") Stance


Probably will help to isolate the mechanics on the front leg and learn to drop and swing on a tilted axis:


And seek this in standstills and x-step.

4. Finally, you can see how much more action Simon gets against the ground leading his swing, whereas your body has kind of stalled out trapped behind the brace because you were never really "on top" of your leg like Simon is.


Also this:



Doing it with a medicine ball is good too. Weights help.

 

[sykern]

I am reading, rereading, and watching while trying to think through all the points you are coming with.

I will start from your recommended action regarding posture. The point about swinging and getting curvature on the swing combined with the point of bracing being down and forward makes a lot of sense.

I have my work cut out and I can't wait to work on it.
I sincerely thank you for the time you have taken in helping me so far. Now i feel I have a direction and some tangible goal I can work towards and compare too.

To be continued!

 

[Brychanus]

I am reading, rereading, and watching while trying to think through all the points you are coming with.

I will start from your recommended action regarding posture. The point about swinging and getting curvature on the swing combined with the point of bracing being down and forward makes a lot of sense.

I have my work cut out and I can't wait to work on it.
I sincerely thank you for the time you have taken in helping me so far. Now i feel I have a direction and some tangible goal I can work towards and compare too.

To be continued!

Also, take it from someone that loves the details but appreciates the risks of getting all tangled up in them too - I think if you work on the posture points and moving freely early and often it's too your benefit. Don't hesitate to get specific feedback on postures and moves since frequently it's easy to do those wrong too!

 

[sykern]

Much appreciated! I will keep that in mind.

 

[sykern]

Work in progress.

Did some standstills, one leg and dingle arm with hammer drills before moving into a full shot .

I worked primarily on shifting down into the brace and tried to be stacked upright before gliding into the brace.

Standstill:
https://youtu.be/iC17c54O5gc

With xstep:
https://youtu.be/-g6yYFCGYWg
https://youtu.be/QNq_IP2pbdg

Feels like some improvement. I will continue working on posture and weightshift. The power of posture and dingle arm really helped.

 

[Brychanus]

Same issues in Standstill & X.

Compare your standstill to his at a similar moment in the backswing. You still have some S-curve, and your rear knee is leaking behind the rear ankle. So you lose leverage and your body starts to tip toward the plant with the shoulders never getting closed off while your weight shifts forward. Instead, you want to work on that spine & pelvis to help "hug the disc." I literally needed to hug a cylindrical trash can to fix this in my form.

So, I'd keep attacking basic posture with a can hug, Buttwipe, and Inside Swing drills. Also take a whack at Hershyzer drill to work on getting your knee inside the ankle for leverage leading with the butt off that rear leg. Expect at least a couple weeks' work on each.

 

[sykern]

Thanks!
I just want to get some clarification regarding some points if that's ok.

I see and understand the point regarding the rear knee and the s-curve. I know i still has some fixing up to do and getting the correct tilt. I at least feel i understand these points now.

I do see that i have my shoulders turned around when my lead foot hits the ground though? Is that maybe not the part in the throw you are referring to? This i did not fully understand.

Also, based on the picture you linked to me in post #8 comparing my upshot throw to Lizotte you explain greatly how to think about the brace compared to my faulty understanding about the brace being stopping the forward momentum like a pole vault, also overextending the last step, collapsing shoulders and my hips moving lateral throughout the throw.

Today I focused on compressing and shifting down into the brace, and from my amateur eyes it seems my hip rotation is a bit better. The brace at least feels totally different know as I am pushing much more downwards into the shift. It also fixed the leaking of the brace. Am I not getting more on top of the brace at the point of release now compared to earlier?
Also the throw feels much more as a swing now which also helps with getting the weight shift down and forward.

I realize things take much more time than 1 day of practice. Just want to make sure I am doing it correctly.
The throws today vs the throws the last month at least FEELS very different in regards to weight and swing.

I believe i have a good understanding about several mechanics to my throw now and I will try to spend some time on each one of them.
Thanks yet again.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hard to tell if you are doing it correctly without actually seeing it.

Based on previous video you are "trying to shift from in front of you" instead of "shifting from behind" as SC talks about in first link. Note how your rear knee/hips are still back while your upper body is tipping over into the plant, while my rear knee has leveraged/shifted my hips forward while my upper body is lagging back behind into the backswing.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

 

[sykern]

I see. Thanks.

I will continue working on posture. I think getting my rear foot more perpendicular/forward might help with shifting more from behind. I'll figure something out

I will have to keep on working!
Thanks for great help!

 

[Brychanus]

When you are messing with feet it's helpful to figure out how your hips naturally work. You might find this content about hip external rotation or internal rotation helpful, which can also help you decide which pros to reference as you develop form:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3737968&postcount=13

Posting the Hershyzer drill itself might also be helpful if you get stuck.

 

[sykern]

I had a round on Sunday and while I was a bit all over the place I threw as long or longer than ever with less effort. Bonus is that the brace leak I have had for years seems to be fixed.

Alot more to be done with posture, shifting from behind+++ (all received critique really)

As mentioned before it FEELS very different compared to just a week ago, throwing feels faster and more effortless.
The season is about to begin, but I will try to get better weight shift and "loaded bow" before committing more to better scores on the course.


These videos were taken yesterday, these will be the last videos here in a while. Consider this post a reference post for myself and the next update in a little while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf2gx2m00PA&ab_channel=AndréRisinggårdSortland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uHp1yneHxw&ab_channel=AndréRisinggårdSortland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_DpJaSqeN4&ab_channel=AndréRisinggårdSortland

 

[sidewinder22]

1. I would stride straighter/stagger feet less. Looks like you have Simon Syndrome which is probably causing your posture to kink up...

2. Your chin should lead the top of your head so your head tilt remains neutral to spine/shoulders, instead of your head tilting over with your lead ear down into ground/shoulder/perpendicular to spine. Note how Paul's lead ear is up to the sky away from shoulder/spine.

 

[sykern]

Thanks.
I'll add it to the list of points to keep in mind!
To be continued