Form Improvement

[Flashblastx]

Hello guys,

I just wanted to share my form improvement since reading the forums. The first throw disgusts me now that I know what to do and feel. The threads on here are worth their weight in gold.



Disc speed has increased drastically. Able to throw so much farther with complete ease, 500 feet feels doable whenever I need now (if I put a good angle on the disc). I want to improve my horse stance but for now it works

Things that helped me:

Lateral movement, not rotation

BRACE

Become the whip, all about kinetic energy (read that long thread)

Loosen up, don't focus on throwing at all. If you can transfer your momentum forward and brace with a completely lose arm. The magic will happen.

Grip the disc tight only at the very last second.

Make sure disc gets to center chest and direct it close to your body. Elbow first, shoulders will follow naturally.

Hopes this helps these are my main takeaways that increased my distance and helped my body feel the whip sensation. Stay lose, don't try to throw far, and think about what's happening with your body off the field.

Dan

 

[RoDeO]

Hello guys,

I just wanted to share my form improvement since reading the forums. The first throw disgusts me now that I know what to do and feel. The threads on here are worth their weight in gold.



Disc speed has increased drastically. Able to throw so much farther with complete ease, 500 feet feels doable whenever I need now (if I put a good angle on the disc). I want to improve my horse stance but for now it works

Things that helped me:

Lateral movement, not rotation

BRACE

Become the whip, all about kinetic energy (read that long thread)

Loosen up, don't focus on throwing at all. If you can transfer your momentum forward and brace with a completely lose arm. The magic will happen.

Grip the disc tight only at the very last second.

Make sure disc gets to center chest and direct it close to your body. Elbow first, shoulders will follow naturally.

Hopes this helps these are my main takeaways that increased my distance and helped my body feel the whip sensation. Stay lose, don't try to throw far, and think about what's happening with your body off the field.

Dan

I haven't been playing very long but I have watched a ton of video and studied a myriad of different players and mechanics. Your kinetic chain and timing events actually look good. I've been a champion of the idea of the hips rotating earlier rather than later as I believe it builds up more kinetic energy. Even though you focus in the lateral I see lots of trunk early rotation building up energy to power the torso and shoulders into release. How the front foot lands should be natural, whether it lands open or closed or anywhere inbetween. Some of the farthest throwers have had an open foot plant. I look at it as how the hips are different in each person and it all depends on how tight or loose the hip and core muscles are and how they stretch and contract to store and release energy. Kind of that rubber band effect- some are loose and need more rotation and others are tight and don't need as much.

If it feels good and like there's more in the tank, go with it. I'm just beginning (3 months in) but distance gains are pretty steady for me and I just generally go with what feels good. My age might limit me getting to 500 feet but I know I will soon hit 400 feet and some time next year I am confident of hitting 450. I told myself early on that if I hit 300 I would be happy. I got to that distance and so anything from here on is just a sweet bonus.

I think brace power comes naturally with more power- as one throws harder their brace becomes more pronounced. Your brace matches your power.

 

[RocHucker]

Loosen up, don't focus on throwing at all. If you can transfer your momentum forward and brace with a completely lose arm. The magic will happen.

Make sure disc gets to center chest and direct it close to your body. Elbow first, shoulders will follow naturally.
Dan

As someone who hasn't yet "gotten it", The idea of a completely loose arm and not focusing on throwing seems to be at odds with directing the disc through certain positions (aka arm is not actually totally loose?).

Can you please try to clarify that for me? How can I control the angle or location of the disc if my arm is totally loose?

Thanks, and excited to see that you've had such a breakthrough! Maybe there's hope for the rest of us.

 

[RocHucker]

Second and perhaps more important question: when the brace "hits" or becomes fully engaged, is the left hip "visible to the target"? In other words, let's say that your momentum is moving from 6:00 to 12:00 on a clock face. It seems to me that it's taught that, at peak reachback, if your spine is the center of the clock then your right hip should be in the ~10:00 direction and your left hip in the ~4:00 direction. And I also understand it to be taught that you are supposed to fully brace before rotating forward (aka clockwise) from this position. I have been taking this as true, but I haven't been able to logically wrap my head around it. It seems to me that, if your left (rear) hip is at 4:00 and your right (front) hip is at 10:00 then a bracing resistance that pushes the right hip in the 6:00 direction would cause a counterclockwise rotation. If instead the right hip was at ~12:30-2:00 and the left hip was at ~6:30-8:00 then it would make sense to me that pushing the right hip towards 6:00 would cause the desired clockwise rotation of the hips.
So I guess to put my question another way: if your momentum just before the brace is moving from 6:00 to 12:00,
1) is the brace pushing your front hip towards 6:00? and
2) at the moment before the brace starts turning your hips, how are they oriented relative to the clock face?

Many thanks

 

[RoDeO]

Second and perhaps more important question: when the brace "hits" or becomes fully engaged, is the left hip "visible to the target"? In other words, let's say that your momentum is moving from 6:00 to 12:00 on a clock face. It seems to me that it's taught that, at peak reachback, if your spine is the center of the clock then your right hip should be in the ~10:00 direction and your left hip in the ~4:00 direction. And I also understand it to be taught that you are supposed to fully brace before rotating forward (aka clockwise) from this position. I have been taking this as true, but I haven't been able to logically wrap my head around it. It seems to me that, if your left (rear) hip is at 4:00 and your right (front) hip is at 10:00 then a bracing resistance that pushes the right hip in the 6:00 direction would cause a counterclockwise rotation. If instead the right hip was at ~12:30-2:00 and the left hip was at ~6:30-8:00 then it would make sense to me that pushing the right hip towards 6:00 would cause the desired clockwise rotation of the hips.
So I guess to put my question another way: if your momentum just before the brace is moving from 6:00 to 12:00,
1) is the brace pushing your front hip towards 6:00? and
2) at the moment before the brace starts turning your hips, how are they oriented relative to the clock face?

Many thanks

There is some misunderstanding in the idea that there is no hip rotation until strong or full brace. At strong or full brace the disc should be in the power pocket area. At this moment, freeze framing things, the hips should have already rotated around half of their total rotation from where your reach back is to release of the disc. That tells us something important. It tells us that rotation begins as a transition from rear leg into brace and that turn thus begins while the weight is still mostly on the rear leg before front foot brace.
Watch Paige Pierce here in the first throw.

https://youtu.be/ZG3YXTE2Dx0

Brace impact, the "hit" as you call it, happens when we see the front hip start to come upward and the front keg start to straighten. Many try to freeze the frame At the exact frame where the front foot first makes contact. That is not the brace moment. The weight is still mostly on the rear foot At that moment and then there is a transition time where the weight kind of floats a bit or transitions fully into the brace. The hips do a lot of turning during this transition phase. The real brace happens after the weight comes fully into the front leg. At that moment the disc is in the power pocket position and her hips have already turned substantially.

 

[RyanRehberg535]

I've been a champion of the idea of the hips rotating earlier

Some might disagree with that choice of words opcorn:

 

[sidewinder22]

As someone who hasn't yet "gotten it", The idea of a completely loose arm and not focusing on throwing seems to be at odds with directing the disc through certain positions (aka arm is not actually totally loose?).

Can you please try to clarify that for me? How can I control the angle or location of the disc if my arm is totally loose?

Thanks, and excited to see that you've had such a breakthrough! Maybe there's hope for the rest of us.

You have to use just enough muscle to maintain the frame and guide the disc and direct the momentum in and out away from your center. Loose is fast and on verge of out of control. Stiff is slow and controlled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-KVWfUkQ3s#t=3m13s
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137392

 

[Flashblastx]

Rochucker,

For your first question. Sidewinder's video should help, my advice is to stay loose in your arm during the whole throw up until the power pocket and then your arm is still loose but you are guiding your elbow forward and then gripping hard on the disc last second. You can be loose but still guide the disc, not throw the disc, guide it.

For angles you want to lean forward or backwards for hyzer or anhyzer, you don't really want to be controlling that with your arm anyways. Height is going to be controlled by a high, neutral, or low reachback. So you can be loose but direct the disc high or low as you let the disc trail behind you.

Big point, if you are loose you will work around the disc and leave it behind. If you are tight and throwing the disc you will be physically reaching back, loosing tons of potential.

As for your second question I'm a little confused by the clock positions to be honest but hopefully this helps.

Look at my right femur on both drives, makes this suuuuper easy to see. On my first bad throw my femur just keeps rotating. On my good throw my femur is not rotating because I am braced. So my best advice would be when my femur is not rotating I am braced, my hips are done at that point, the power is traveling up my body because it literally has nowhere to go but up my body because of the brace. The forward momentum is shoving my left knee and leg into the back of my right thigh.

Once the disc rips out your upper body should be whipped around by your loose swinging meat sack of an arm. Your hips will open and your foot will pivot naturally. You would break in half if this didn't happen and your body is not about that. Your pelvis and spine are connected by your S.I. joints and trust me those are not about to be dislocated (only ever seen that from people getting hit by cars).

So instead of thinking so much about rotation I would recommend trying this exercise. This helped me realize what the move actually feels like instead of over complicating it, it's super simple once you feel it:



So try that and then just put a disc in your hand and see what happens. Hope this helps!

Dan

 

[sidewinder22]

Second and perhaps more important question: when the brace "hits" or becomes fully engaged, is the left hip "visible to the target"? In other words, let's say that your momentum is moving from 6:00 to 12:00 on a clock face. It seems to me that it's taught that, at peak reachback, if your spine is the center of the clock then your right hip should be in the ~10:00 direction and your left hip in the ~4:00 direction. And I also understand it to be taught that you are supposed to fully brace before rotating forward (aka clockwise) from this position. I have been taking this as true, but I haven't been able to logically wrap my head around it. It seems to me that, if your left (rear) hip is at 4:00 and your right (front) hip is at 10:00 then a bracing resistance that pushes the right hip in the 6:00 direction would cause a counterclockwise rotation. If instead the right hip was at ~12:30-2:00 and the left hip was at ~6:30-8:00 then it would make sense to me that pushing the right hip towards 6:00 would cause the desired clockwise rotation of the hips.
So I guess to put my question another way: if your momentum just before the brace is moving from 6:00 to 12:00,
1) is the brace pushing your front hip towards 6:00? and
2) at the moment before the brace starts turning your hips, how are they oriented relative to the clock face?

Many thanks

I have a hard time thinking about this in clocks and static moments of full brace and engagement. It's a dynamic system.

1. I would say it's pushing and clearing the front hip more toward 3-4 o'clock counter to the hit around 1030. Imagine a pole vault or fishing rod between your butt and the disc. Butt moves and disc lags and springs.

2. About 730, but depends on your dynamics and stagger vs inline stance. Landing on toes first starts bracing and toes pushing into ground start pushing the front hip out of the way before the heel plants, toes pushing actually helps push the heel down. You technically don't need the heel to brace, but it sure gives the ankle/up a lot more stability to rotate on. Simon basically does Elephant Walk with his leftward plant step and he pushes the toes against the ground <---- toward 9 o'clock left tee, which pushes the hip back ----> toward the heel/right tee/3 o'clock.

 

[Arezaki]

Become the whip, all about kinetic energy (read that long thread)

Thanks for sharing your insights.

Could someone give a link to that thread? Do not manage to find it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Thanks for sharing your insights.

Could someone give a link to that thread? Do not manage to find it.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133319

 

[Arezaki]

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133319

Ah, that thread. Yes, that one is very useful.

 

[Thr33putt]

The forward momentum is shoving my left knee and leg into the back of my right thigh.

Just curious, do you feel like this is stopping or decelerating the hip and causing more upper body rotation?