Handicap accessibility?

[Tfire25]

How do disc golf courses get away with not being handicap accessible? I'm a construction superintendent and my company only builds city parks. When we build a park everything has to meet the Ada standards.

You have no idea how much of a pain in the ass this is. Sorry, just imagine putting in a wood dock without any uneven edges.

Back on topic, how do we get away with the inaccessibility? Also, how do I explain to architects that they can put in courses without handicap accessible routes?

P.s. put handicap in the search function.... I think we need handicap routes just for our search function.

TIA - Tyler

 

[the_pwnerator]

Idk, it's one of those "is it really feasible" things..

While it would be awesome for disabled people, I'm not sure there are good ways to make a DG course handicap accessible. Most courses are either very wooded or have moderate to severe hills. DG courses already cost a lot, let alone if they had to pour concrete paths for wheelchairs.

I mean, you can't really make a state parks rock climbing area handicap accessible can you?

 

[Tfire25]

Yeah I don't get it. I can't tell you how many handicap ramps we have to pull out because they are half a percent over 8.33 percent. How I interpret the rule is, you can't have any special attraction that is not accessible.

On the other hand, if you have two benches then only one has to be accessible. Maybe you only have to have one hole that is accessible?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Sports where the play requirements are such that the challenge would be reduced by meeting ADA requirements do not have to specifically meet them in the playing field from what I understand. Ball golf has been judged to meet this challenge criteria and is not required to meet ADA. Disc golf has followed their lead although there are no specific official statements in writing either way. Accessibility to the start and from the end of the course might be required but I haven't heard of any forced compliance. There are many courses now where anywhere from 3 to 9 holes have been made ADA compliant by choice so more players have access to at least part of the course.

 

[Tfire25]

Thanks Chuck! That makes sense. I got my dad into it a while back and he had the same question when we got to holes 5-10 at bicentennial in Crowley. I think that future parks will have to be accessible for at least a couple holes but I won't bring it up to our architects because I think it would take away from the sport.

On a side note, I talked to an architect a couple weeks ago and he is trying to get a course built in the dallas area with irrigated fairways, island greens, multiple tee pads, and as much elevation/trees as possible. It sounds stupid expensive, but we just built a 14 million dollar project for a city so.... I'm just saying, we got a chance.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I'm not well versed on the subject, but I can't imagine everything's necessarily supposed to be handicap accessible. I wouldn't say most mountain bike trails meet that criteria.
FWIW, when we installed this course, 6 holes were layed out with the specific intent of being handicap accessible.

Also, I would say that a great many city park courses, such as these, are handicap accessible,or at least most of the holes are:
Firefighters Park
Starr-Jaycee Park

 

[Speedly]

You know, I may be opening a can of worms here, but I would think that part of being handicapped is understanding that there are just some things you're not gonna be able to do, and dealing with it. As an example, you wouldn't expect every single sports game to have someone signing out the National Anthem as they sang for deaf patrons - it's just how it is.

Making handicapped-accessible holes is awesome, and I'm all for inclusion - everyone should be able to have fun with us! But if someone were to hypothetically demand that an entire course be re-done so they could play, I'd hope the response would be "kick rocks."

 

[Star Shark]

LA required that the Chavez Ridge course be handicap accessible. If you've ever been to the course you know how silly an idea this is. The whole thing is on a ridge, most of the holes are side hill lie with a few being actually level. They cut paths in to appropriate width but that's about it. I can't imagine anyone in a wheelchair playing that course. It's a huge pain in the ass on foot even. Throw your shot a little fluffy or clip a tree and it's going several hundred feet down a hill and good luck finding it.

 

[Lubbock Jason]

Are ball golf courses required to have handicap accessibility? I believe that they just have to have it for the public areas, ie the parking lot and club house. Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[sloppydisc]

I want all basketball courts to have baskets set at 8' so I can dunk. :wall:

Is there a clamoring somewhere from physically handicapped people that want to play disc golf? Or is this just a politically correct idea run amuck? Seems silly to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[Tfire25]

Here is the deal. All parks funded by cities have to be made to meet handicap accessibility. You can't imagine the pain I have to go thru trying to make this happen. Let me just say the plans aren't EVER right. So architects put little notes that say something like "Everything has to be built to Ada specifications". This screws the contractor because if you pour a parking lot and a building to the grades on the plans sometimes the connecting sidewalks(last things built so you don't brake the concrete with machines) will be too steep going to or from the building. What if I build a disc golf course that is not handicap accessible and get busted because it isn't?

Aren't most golf courses privately owned? This would take away the Ada requirements that apply to city funded projects.

 

[scarpfish]

We have wanted for some time to build more holes on the opposite side of a flood levee at my home course to take advantage of the trees on that side.

Supposedly when we asked the city about it, they said that we couldn't because of ADA requirements. At the time, there was no handicap accessible means to the other side of the levee, but since then, a walking path (which I would assume would have to be ADA compliant itself) has been installed. I personally can't tell you if the existence of the walking path changes matters.

 

[b-mart]

Word is that Silver Lake Excalibur in Everett, WA is handicap accessible. I live right by there, and I assure you that it is not. Maybe all of the baskets and teepads are, but the area between? Not so much.

 

[Halcón]

Just so i understand the insanity of this thread....

Are you suggesting that certain entire courses are to be ADA compliant?
Not just certain holes?

I can fully understand parking lots, clubhouses, proshops, existing paths, restrooms...etc. That makes sense especially for a gallery for a big event, or for someone who wants to tag along and watch.

I LOVE this game. But if I (or any member of my family) was ever disabled, and wheelchair bound, I'd not expect that any course be forced to cater to my needs...much less make every hole accessible for me.

Now, if the course designers / city has the funds for it, then by all means, go for it. It just shouldn't be mandatory.

 

[tr8k]

No bigsky. You can read the original post and see that no one suggested that. Go ahead and check it out and all signs of so called insanity should disappear.

 

[Halcón]

When we build a park everything has to meet the Ada standards.

That's why I asked the question.

And yes, it's insane to think that an entire DG course should be ADA compliant. I'm sorry if that offends anybody but I'm entitled to my opinion, however much it may stink.

 

[Horsman]

Wisconsin has 2 courses that are made specificially with the handicapped in mind so that they can also play this wonderful game

 

[mashnut]

LA required that the Chavez Ridge course be handicap accessible. If you've ever been to the course you know how silly an idea this is. The whole thing is on a ridge, most of the holes are side hill lie with a few being actually level. They cut paths in to appropriate width but that's about it. I can't imagine anyone in a wheelchair playing that course. It's a huge pain in the ass on foot even. Throw your shot a little fluffy or clip a tree and it's going several hundred feet down a hill and good luck finding it.

Those requirements took a really cool piece of land and forced a design that's only ok. Not being able to go up or down hill with any kind of grade really limits how well you can use the elevation in a situation like that.

 

[Steve West]

1006 Golf Facilities
1006.1 General. Golf facilities shall comply with 1006.
1006.2 Accessible Routes. Accessible routes serving teeing grounds, practice teeing grounds, putting greens, practice putting greens, teeing stations at driving ranges, course weather shelters, golf car rental areas, bag drop areas, and course toilet rooms shall comply with Chapter 4 and shall be 48 inches (1220 mm) wide minimum. Where handrails are provided, accessible routes shall be 60 inches (1525 mm) wide minimum.
EXCEPTION: Handrails shall not be required on golf courses. Where handrails are provided on golf courses, the handrails shall not be required to comply with 505.
Advisory 1006.2 Accessible Routes. The 48 inch (1220 mm) minimum width for the accessible route is necessary to ensure passage of a golf car on either the accessible route or the golf car passage. This is important where the accessible route is used to connect the golf car rental area, bag drop areas, practice putting greens, practice teeing grounds, course toilet rooms, and course weather shelters. These are areas outside the boundary of the golf course, but are areas where an individual using an adapted golf car may travel. A golf car passage may not be substituted for other accessible routes to be located outside the boundary of the course. For example, an accessible route connecting an accessible parking space to the entrance of a golf course clubhouse is not covered by this provision.
Providing a golf car passage will permit a person that uses a golf car to practice driving a golf ball from the same position and stance used when playing the game. Additionally, the space required for a person using a golf car to enter and maneuver within the teeing stations required to be accessible should be considered.
1006.3 Golf Car Passages. Golf car passages shall comply with 1006.3.
1006.3.1 Clear Width. The clear width of golf car passages shall be 48 inches (1220 mm) minimum.
1006.3.2 Barriers. Where curbs or other constructed barriers prevent golf cars from entering a fairway, openings 60 inches (1525 mm) wide minimum shall be provided at intervals not to exceed 75 yards (69 m).
1006.4 Weather Shelters. A clear floor or ground space 60 inches (1525 mm) minimum by 96 inches (2440 mm) minimum shall be provided within weather shelters.

In short, you need to be able to get a golf car to each tee, target and other important areas, but not to every square inch of the course.

 

[Steve West]

Also, see http://www.accessgolf.org/resources/toolkit_owners.cfm