High Desert Distance Challenge 2016

[rjmcleod]

I haven't read through all of the comments but I assume they're in line with what I've read on Facebook/Instgram/Reddit.

In any case, I just wanted to let you know how we've decided to move forward (we meaning the WFDF).

There will be two records - Indoor and Outdoor. We're not going to create separate categories for wind because if we do that for the men, we have to do it for the women and based on the results for the women from Monday, they actually threw it shorter than on Saturday with less wind.

The competitors have no control over the conditions - they show up and throw with whatever conditions exist on the day of. Distance events have been happening since 1972.

I'm not sure if this has been posted here or not but I posted an article by Dan "Stork" Roddick on my website talking about the wind and records and competitions - http://www.frisbeerob.com/2016/03/27/discs-us-and-the-wind.

Here's also a video of David and Simon talking about the wind and world records that I posted last night - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdqBZNRB63I.

I'm excited for what the future holds! Indoor competitions and more outdoor distance competitions where players go head to head. Plus I'm looking forward to who will be the first woman to ever throw over 600 feet (my money is on Jennifer Allen btw).

If you have any questions about WFDF World Records, feel free to drop me a line: [email protected]. I was a co-organizer of the High Desert Distance Challenge and I was also one of the competitors (my best throw was 217 m (712 feet)). I'm also the WFDF Director of Global Communications and hold 6 WFDF World Records so I'm fully invested in disc sports, world records and growing the sport.

 

[rjmcleod]

Remember that the wind is just an estimate and only measures the speed on the ground. Because we're throwing it so high into the air, who knows what the wind is 100-200 feet in the air. So it's all an estimate which is why we're not changing the records and they will remain as the Outdoor and Indoor records.

"and what happens if the wind is 29 mph when the throw is released, but then it gusts up to 40? or changes direction? there are two options: keep it the way it is, or make it indoors"

It's real simple wind speed on release. If their is a gust it would be likely that speed of the disc would be way past the gust. Remember these guys are throwing 90 plus mph.

And if your disc catches some of that gust like Dave's did, like Christian's did their is always next year. If we had that rule in place dave's throw wouldn't have counted because it was in the 38/40 range.

Your are more than welcome to advocate for indoor throwing. In the meantime I'll be outside enjoying the elements of beautiful mother nature.

If your stuck on prostituting the event in a effort to make for fairness you need to realize that so many other sports are outside and the records do count under each sport's guidelines. Disc golf is no different its just an infant compared to track and field, skiing, etc. all outdoor events.

 

[rjmcleod]

Jason Cortella threw a XXX 483' with a tomahawk in 2014. He's a baseball player: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5dNMn3oyk.

 

[hook_nuts]

Great decision! Couldn't agree with you more! Some people don't get it, but hopefully you cleared it up for them!

 

[rjmcleod]

It's the only option we have

Since we don't really know what effect the wind has on the disc and it all depends on the arm speed + the spin on the disc, any number we use for wind speed is totally arbitrary.

Great decision! Couldn't agree with you more! Some people don't get it, but hopefully you cleared it up for them!

 

[AzteC]

Cant wait for some real indoor numbers, because hypothetically, if only throw 600-700 feet, that will stop all of those exaggerators who say, OH I can throw 550 feet on flat ground!

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Assuming a guy that maxes out say 375' - 400' was out there, and got the trajectory and release angle correct, how far is he throwing in comparison with that same wind?
I don't need a whole physics lesson, just curious how exponential that wind is.

Well, a quick way to change the wind speed into feet per second is to multiply the MPH by 1.5. So a 40mph wind turns into a 60 fps wind. If a disc stays in the air for 10 seconds that would be 600 feet of additional distance due to wind . . . kind of.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

Rob,

I encourage you to read through this thread. These comments represent some of "voting cast," for better or worse.

And also, was their anything like this on last year's on dgcr? Obviously were in the middle of some great change. The foundation of this great event has been rocked and some of these cracks need fixed.

Your decision seems to put things in a simple kind of black and white world works well in the short term. I'm ok with that because ultimately simplicity is the most effective strategy for making an effective decision.

I would also like to encourage you to have some type of system to asterisk these throws and or designate the wind speed if it is beyond a certain point.

It is assumed wind is always at play(measureable or not) with outdoor long distance throws. A great thing! But if the wind is beyond a certain point it needs to be noted. My vote is 30 mph. By the way I've been distance field throwing for almost 20 years..in a slew of wind conditions.

The only control we have is ground wind speed measurement. Yes it could be a little different a 100 feet up but it won't be radically different. It is the only measurement we have of wind so let's use it!

If we don't desingnate dave's throw as an outlier we have nothing to benchmark moving forward. This is critical to moving forward and keeping the hype going for one of the greatest field events of all time.

If we do this, guys like simon and dave will actually have a legitmate goal to break and that still is the 900 foot barrier. Simon kissed it with his throw Saturday.

By all means we do need wind to make the flight of a disc ideal. The 18-20 mph ideal is still ideal.

Over and out,

Dr.Smooth

 

[wims]

Well, a quick way to change the wind speed into feet per second is to multiply the MPH by 1.5. So a 40mph wind turns into a 60 fps wind. If a disc stays in the air for 10 seconds that would be 600 feet of additional distance due to wind . . . kind of.

That's not how physics work tho. The discs have mass and energy is required to move them around. A theoretical 0 mass object might get carried 600 feet ... although the wind doesn't move in a straight line, it's very turbulent

 

[teemkey]

Out of curiosity, other than open men, how many other divisions set world records when the (ground) wind speed was above 30mph?

 

[AndyJB]

Some people bitched on the internet because someone's throw was TOO GOOD so now the largest governing body in disc sports has to make new categories?

If there is ever a prime example of how small and insignificant disc golf is, its this thread.

#growthesport

 

[rjmcleod]

None.

The women all threw shorter on Monday with the 30+ mph winds than they did on Saturday with less than 30 mph winds.

A few of the grandmasters had longer throws than on Saturday but none were record breaking throws.

Out of curiosity, other than open men, how many other divisions set world records when the (ground) wind speed was above 30mph?

 

[rjmcleod]

I spent a few hours last night reading through every single comment.

The last time we held the event was Oct 2014 and it was relatively quiet compared to this year partially because we had less people, we did less marketing/promotions and the results weren't as newsworthy.

I disagree that the foundation of this event has been rocked. Many of the comments on this thread are from people who only first heard about this event in the past few days. The guys I'm talking to have been planning, organizing, writing guidelines and rules and competing for the past 40 years so although I will read every comment and take them into account, I'm going to place much more weight on 40+ years than only a few days worth. There have been big winds in the past and those frisbees flew much farther than anyone thought possible but that was in practice so it wasn't a world record at the time (Ken Westerfield threw a sidearm 525 feet with a 40 mold which is just incredible in warmup due to a big wind gust).

We have always recorded the wind speeds for world record throws so I think it's a good idea to actually list those records on the website along with a history of the other throws.

For example, if you go out to throw in 25mph, you know that Simon threw 904 feet so you have something to gauge yourself against. If you go throw in 35 mph wind, you know that David threw 1109 feet.

However, unless you have arm speed of 100+ mph, you'll never have a chance of throwing that far so it's much more realistic and effective to record your personal best and try to break that. Record the winds too when you go throw (I don't necessarily mean you specifically...more of a general you) so you have an idea of what effect wind has on your individual throw.

No matter what wind we choose, it's arbitrary and will vary for each individual so that's why a simple black and white approach is the best way to move forward I believe.

I'm having a facebook group chat with Simon, David and Alex as I type this and they all agree.

Rob

Rob,

I encourage you to read through this thread. These comments represent some of "voting cast," for better or worse.

And also, was their anything like this on last year's on dgcr? Obviously were in the middle of some great change. The foundation of this great event has been rocked and some of these cracks need fixed.

Your decision seems to put things in a simple kind of black and white world works well in the short term. I'm ok with that because ultimately simplicity is the most effective strategy for making an effective decision.

I would also like to encourage you to have some type of system to asterisk these throws and or designate the wind speed if it is beyond a certain point.

It is assumed wind is always at play(measureable or not) with outdoor long distance throws. A great thing! But if the wind is beyond a certain point it needs to be noted. My vote is 30 mph. By the way I've been distance field throwing for almost 20 years..in a slew of wind conditions.

The only control we have is ground wind speed measurement. Yes it could be a little different a 100 feet up but it won't be radically different. It is the only measurement we have of wind so let's use it!

If we don't desingnate dave's throw as an outlier we have nothing to benchmark moving forward. This is critical to moving forward and keeping the hype going for one of the greatest field events of all time.

If we do this, guys like simon and dave will actually have a legitmate goal to break and that still is the 900 foot barrier. Simon kissed it with his throw Saturday.

By all means we do need wind to make the flight of a disc ideal. The 18-20 mph ideal is still ideal.

Over and out,

Dr.Smooth

 

[Dr.Smooth]

When we start talking credibility and whose comment would most likely be the most valid in my mind it would be Scott Stokely.

I know Scott spoke about Simon's throw and wind speed but I wonder what he thinks about Dave's throw in the gail force winds.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

That's not how physics work tho. The discs have mass and energy is required to move them around. A theoretical 0 mass object might get carried 600 feet ... although the wind doesn't move in a straight line, it's very turbulent

Hence the "kind of" part. The guy stated that he didn't want a physics lesson, but don't let that get in your way professor.

 

[onemilemore]

When we start talking credibility and whose comment would most likely be the most valid in my mind it would be Scott Stokely.

I know Scott spoke about Simon's throw and wind speed but I wonder what he thinks about Dave's throw in the gail force winds.

Simon, David, and Alex aren't enough? I think we can be OK with this.

If not, I see your Stokely and raise you Christian Sandstrom. If you're going to consult one, you have to consult the other, too.

 

[Agricolae]

When we start talking credibility and whose comment would most likely be the most valid in my mind it would be Scott Stokely.

Why Stokely over Rob McLeod? McLeod has been running the thing for a long time and throws in the same event. He has been witness to past records and knows the other competitors personally.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

Sorry, not to put other's out. Yeah I would like to hear from Christian definitely. Add Jarvis to that list as well. What about Voight too.

I guess I'm a bit biased toward the old distance dudes-like those of us over 30, 40 etc.

Wow, that would be amazing to get a collective discussion going on from the past record holders.

 

[DirtyMeathook]

Rob, you say that Simon and David agree, but they were just on a live podcast a couple days ago and their position could not have been more different than yours. Simon said that him and David agreed, "there was no point of holding another one of these." Stating what everyone is thinking. Nobody is going to top the 1100, and the potential of a World record throw is the entirety of the event's allure. I respect the idea of sticking with tradition, but from a business standpoint you'd be making a mistake not to evolve the event. If you don't, this may be the last time anyone has a meaningful discussion about it. "Joe Blow breaks personal best and throws 12th furthest drive ever," isn't a very intriguing headline.

 

[hook_nuts]

Let's just reset records every year so we can have headlines!