Holding to the Hit and Horse Stance

[HyzerUniBomber]

In that Brinster video, the stand still shots are all upshots and it was interesting to see that he uses the "rail pull" for upshots and then the avg/good pull for drives.

A true stand still drive, where you are trying to throw for distance is kind of a rare thing. There's all the motion with taking a hop or a step that makes sliding/pushing into the plant foot easier. Take away the step and now you have to add something that doesn't' exist in the stand still drive to the system.

Also, it occurred to me that the amount and complete use various power generating mechanics are adjusted for how much distance you need. On a 200-250' upshot, I don't need to uncork late or twist the hips - I can easily hit that distance with a smooth wide pull.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

maybe using the letter I

the horizontal parts on the I are the start and finish of the teepad. say your running up towards the top. what degree angle do you release on? the vertical line represents 0 degrees and is perfectly straight.

i can envision this but i feel like it might be confusing to others

I'd say that the Avery shot I posted on page 1 shows what you are asking.

 

[sidewinder22]

In that Brinster video, the stand still shots are all upshots and it was interesting to see that he uses the "rail pull" for upshots and then the avg/good pull for drives.

A true stand still drive, where you are trying to throw for distance is kind of a rare thing. There's all the motion with taking a hop or a step that makes sliding/pushing into the plant foot easier. Take away the step and now you have to add something that doesn't' exist in the stand still drive to the system.

Also, it occurred to me that the amount and complete use various power generating mechanics are adjusted for how much distance you need. On a 200-250' upshot, I don't need to uncork late or twist the hips - I can easily hit that distance with a smooth wide pull.

Brinster still uses the rail pull on drives, he is moving so closed it's just hard to see. The arc of his full swing is ridiculous.

Full standstill drives are rare unless you find a player who only throws standstill. The forward momentum in stepping helps keep the momentum aimed on a line. Nate Doss even takes steps on some short approaches. It's good to practice a full standstill though. If you watch Pagraig or Rory do a happy Gilmore it's almost identical to Dg footwork.

 

[rhatton1]

God i love your golf video analogies sidewinder, it just breaks little form aspects down better than anything else I have seen on the net, they give me things I have never even thought of before to work on in the field.

Now I just want you to film more of your own disc golf takes on them on your own youtube channel so I can point people in your direction for stuff to watch, learn and most importantly drill(with a decent microphone and speaking into it this time )

 

[rhatton1]

Love the move videos - I feel like i'm in a golf version of Fargo, yah ...eh?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Brinster still uses the rail pull on drives, he is moving so closed it's just hard to see. The arc of his full swing is ridiculous.

Full standstill drives are rare unless you find a player who only throws standstill. The forward momentum in stepping helps keep the momentum aimed on a line. Nate Doss even takes steps on some short approaches. It's good to practice a full standstill though. If you watch Pagraig or Rory do a happy Gilmore it's almost identical to Dg footwork.

It is indeed very hard to see, but I get what you're saying.

Looking like rain here for a couple days, so I can rest up and take a break from fieldwork. Core muscles are sore.

That Rory video is funny.



That's a nice hop, but not opening that knee I wouldn't want to try that too many times.

 

[elmexdela]

I'd say that the Avery shot I posted on page 1 shows what you are asking.

looks like just a bit under 90 degrees if im not mistaken sweet thanks

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

MikeC's heal does pivot backwards during a standstill. Not to beat a dying horse, but the video that bfowler posted was not from a stand still, it was a x-step.



I'm not saying that I'm doing it right, I'm just saying that it's coming down to how people coil up and push forward, twist against that back foot, for stand still drives... which I think we all agree are strange and rare and most people like to do a step of some sort to get into the right spot.

 

[sidewinder22]

MikeC's heal does pivot backwards during a standstill. Not to beat a dying horse, but the video that bfowler posted was not from a stand still, it was a x-step.

I'm not saying that I'm doing it right, I'm just saying that it's coming down to how people coil up and push forward, twist against that back foot, for stand still drives... which I think we all agree are strange and rare and most people like to do a step of some sort to get into the right spot.

Nope. The heel still leads the toes during the throw. It's not until after the release that his heel moves backwards.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Nope. The heel still leads the toes during the throw. It's not until after the release that his heel moves backwards.

Damn I wish we were in the same room so we could talk, point, and see what we're talking about.

You're saying that the heal is further forward than the toes during the pull through for a stand still drive.

Just that.

Just the orientation of the rear foot?

Will's rear foot in that animated gif on page 1, he's not heal forward, he's more perpendicular. I can see that Mike is more heal forward, then heal rotates back.

 

[sidewinder22]

Heel must move forward ahead of the toes while toes are still on ground to counter the swing. What happens after the toes leave the ground or after release is not really important although it can show good or bad indication. If your foot is inline facing the target the heel is further away, but it can only move forward while toes are on the ground so it's still leading the toes forward even though the toes are closer to the target. This is the basics of walking forward or moving your weight forward. When your foot is perpendicular or further from the target it's much easier to spin out. The heel can be closer to the target than the toes, but it should still move forward ahead the toes, or at least not move backward. The heel lines up to the rest of your posture, so if your heel moves backward, that means your whole posture and weight is spinning out or not moving forward.

 

[sidewinder22]

SW, I'd be interested in seeing you do some stand stills on video, especially as it seems you have a different style from the way Will describes it. Will, it seems from the video, would be hitting the door frame with his shoulders - initiating with the hips twisting and moving forward, where you're hitting it with your hips, then twisting. I think what you're pointing out is that you want to generate that motion with your hips leading - but it's a big hard for me to imagine how that meshes with the 2nd half of the motion.

But, I see what I think you're saying about my back foot during stand-stills. Will shows it pretty perfectly in that he leaves that back foot right behind him until his hips are fully opened.

Stand stills are harder!

 

[Timeetyo]

<3 Sidewinder. That is quite helpful to have an all in one, nice, clean shots from standstill.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

So that's really interesting. Thank you for whipping that up - I get what you're saying now about the heel. The one thing I noticed is that you are more a weight shift power generator vs the knee dropping / hip opening will schusterick style.

I think the stand still I did in the video in the first post of this thread, I had sorta practiced my way into discovering that sensation during the reachback of where the hips are locked against your abs. You just can't twist any more without moving your legs. At that point, opening my hips seems to multiply the uncorking of the twist.

The heel was not really driving forward momentum in that standstill because it just initiated the knee drop and then it got outta the way. So if I can add some forward momentum from the instep of the back foot while initiating the hip turn - I think I could improve the stand still drive.

I think taking that plant foot off the ground for a second helps too.

I'm assuming I can do it, but that's assuming that Will and I are made of the same material and I think that might not actually be true.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm not bracing or torquing through the front side as hard as Will or as hard as my FH. It's still a lefty move to me.

 

[Asian Style]

Holy crap this thread has clarified something I've been missing, at least if I'm understanding it correctly. I think I understand where HUB was coming from. It seemed like he was was focused on the knee drop and the hip turn but sw22 was pointing out that it all starts at the ground, where the inside of rear foot gets "loaded". I finally think I understand what sw22 is talking about now when he talks about what the rear heel is supposed to be doing. I think before in my practice, I was purposely dropping my rear knee and spinning my back heel to try and help my hip turn but that was weak form. Doing some dry throws, loading the rear instep and pushing off of it and driving my heel ahead of my toes feels way more powerful. The rear knee drops consequently rather than actively and I feel like it gives way more oomph into pushing my hips into the braced position and rotating them.

I think today I'll be practicing some stand still throws to try it out! I also realized thanks to sw22 I may be bending my knee too much on my rear leg in my backswing. I'm not sure how to shift my navel though without ruining my posture or widening my stance. I imagine this happens naturally as a result of shifting my weight forward like in the doorframe drill? Thanks for this thread! It's given me another piece of the puzzle to work on.

 

[bfowler]

For me the best thing this makes me do is if I'm keeping the weight on the inside instep I can't lean back. I don't have any choice but to keep my weight centers and/or shifting forward.

And if your weight is balanced it's a lot more likely you're going to glide to your plant step.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Somebody pointed out that I'm still over opening - and so I went out today with the goal of staying closed through the extension. I got part of the way there by picking a spot about 15° from perpendicular that I wouldn't let myself look past. I think I'm going to try do go a full 90° from my target.

Doing that and replicating the plant foot up a few inches I was very happy with the standstill.

I'm eating some crow on it.

Bringing the disc to the center of your chest, hand on the outside is key. I'm trying to keep that wide flat backswing that "docks" into the center.

McBeth really gets that elbow out there. They also have their heads looking substantially more forward than SW22 does - but the key seems to be that it's the arm extension that's pulling the hand around the disc and not the shoulder.

 

[Timhawk33]

but the key seems to be that it's the arm extension that's pulling the hand around the disc and not the shoulder

HUB, this is what I was working on most recently and it seems to have given me close to 50' (225' to 275') more distance on my longest throws. I visualize my shoulder mainly being used to get the elbow in position to snap the forearm and wrist forward and release the disc.

 

[sidewinder22]

I believe BlakeT said the last few inches are basically the same for everyone that throws really far which is that extension that pulls the disc around fast at the very end.

I usually don't try to compare my form to Paul or Will because I'm built so different than them. My form is more similar to Avery as is my stocky build, but he towers over me. I prefer to compare myself with guys that have similar builds or size like GG, Brinster, McCray, and Feldy. The camera angles are slightly different so I think the elbow lead looks bigger than it is on Paul and Will and their skinny shoulders allow more elbow lead. They are also throwing hyzers and I'm throwing flat. You can see the disc is closer to their left pec when they start to extend and their shoulders are more open because it's hyzers.