How impressive is (present-day) Ken Climo?

[lyleoross]

Interesting points. I wonder if Ken would've developed a putting style like McBeth's had he come up around this time.

Ken's style drove putting development for years. He did a great video where he commented on his style saying that it allowed him to work in one dimension, up and down, instead of two. If I remember correctly, he puts very little spin on the disc, focusing on lifting it into the basket. Clearly, as good as Ken was/is, it can be argued the Paul is better. He doesn't putt to beat the environment (what Ken did) he adjusts his putt to accommodate the environment.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

Having grown up in the Ken Climo environment and seeing Paul as a mature adult I would still put my money on Ken.

Ken had more golf distance than about any one at the time (minus stokely obviously). I remember seeing him throw a cheetah on a dead rope nearly 500 feet. That was dead flat ground, in hot humid air.

Ken never missed puts inside the circle it seemed. Paul does on a great occasion.

Their both great golfers!

My vote is on Ken for sure. No doubt in my mind.

 

[Agricolae]

The greatest athletes are those who train to play above the level of their competition. The most efficient of those play just far enough above their competition to consistently win (dominate); they don't waste time training to outperform their competitors by 50% when 5-10% will suffice. They're not training to play better than someone who has not yet been born.

Present day Climo is darned impressive.

 

[tbird888]

The greatest athletes are those who train to play above the level of their competition. The most efficient of those play just far enough above their competition to consistently win (dominate); they don't waste time training to outperform their competitors by 50% when 5-10% will suffice. They're not training to play better than someone who has not yet been born.

Present day Climo is darned impressive.

The greatest athletes never stop reaching for the top because that's what it takes to stay on top. They aren't competing against anyone else because their only competition is themselves. 5-10% when they can do more finds them with competition. "Just good enough" is not in their vocabulary. It's all or nothing. How do you think they got on top in the first place?

 

[Pbmercil]

And putting wins over driving. Look at the way Climo and Barry putt. Nose downish, barely squeaking over the cage. Those old crappy baskets formed their styles. Now that baskets catch better, the style used by current pros (especially McBeth) hits higher and allows the chains to pull them in. The young guys almost never miss low (unlike Climo and Barry).

I'm not 100% convinced this is fair or true. A lot of the top guys still push/pitch putt with very similar mechanics to Barry and Climo. They just putt harder to use a flatter arc, but mechanically it's still a push putt. I'm not so sure that basket designed changed that putt so much as that the younger crowd improved on the technique that the old guard invented. Granted you can putt like a barbarian on some of the baskets these days, but overall I'm pretty sure the higher velocity push putt is just better regardless of basket.

 

[threevok]

Aside from all the years of awesomeness that is, Ken Climo, there this little nugget to let you know he's human.

I could be wrong but it looked like a foot fault on that last putt.

 

[araytx]

Dave Dunipace said ...Climo is the best driver ever (and still is tremendous). And McBeth is the best putter ever. ...

Now that baskets catch better, the style used by current pros (especially McBeth) hits higher and allows the chains to pull them in. The young guys almost never miss low (unlike Climo and Barry).

... the interviewer asks who would win in a contest between Paul and Ken ... in their prime. The quick response was Paul...

[H]e did qualify a bit and made the comment that The Champ has had more consistent driving for a much longer time frame. I'm extremely impressed with folks like Kenny who could can hang with guys in their early/mid 20's - that's absolutely incredible!

... Basket design limited Climo's game as much as shorter hole length enabled it.

I do not agree that McBeth is the best putter ever. I will say he may be the most clutch putter ever, but I don't know how I would quantify that.

...

...Stokely['s]...answer was unequivocal: the level of play that Ken had to compete against was nowhere near what it is today...

Yes, Ken played high level - high pressure golf and won consistently and nobody should dream of taking anything away from the champ ...

Climo is to disc golf what Gretzky was to hockey. With the advances in technology, one would have to be a fool to presume Gretzky wouldn't have killed it even harder if he played in today's era ...

Ken's style drove putting development ...

Clearly, as good as Ken was/is, it can be argued the Paul is better. He doesn't putt to beat the environment (what Ken did) he adjusts his putt to accommodate the environment.

Having grown up in the Ken Climo environment and seeing Paul as a mature adult I would still put my money on Ken.

...

Ken never missed puts inside the circle it seemed. Paul does on a great occasion.

Their both great golfers!...

The greatest athletes never stop reaching for the top because that's what it takes to stay on top. They aren't competing against anyone else because their only competition is themselves...

... A lot of the top guys still push/pitch putt with very similar mechanics to Barry and Climo. They just putt harder to use a flatter arc, but mechanically it's still a push putt. I'm not so sure that basket designed changed that putt so much as that the younger crowd improved on the technique that the old guard invented. ...

Sounds like there is a lot of agreement to what I said about comparing eras.

 

[ranger]

A big part of Climo's game is part that doesn't deteriorate - accuracy and consistency. Sure, we lose strength and distance as we get older (I'm experiencing this as well, I'm 34) but when your game doesn't rely on distance, but fairways/greens in regulation and putting at a high percentage, those things can definitely be kept up with as you get older. I think you'll see more of a fall off for the younger guys that throw hard and throw 500' all the time when their bodies start to age.

To answer your original question though: It's incredibly impressive that his skills haven't diminished much at all in 20 years. I was just watching the 2001 USDGC, and he pretty much plays the same game now as he did then. It all looks the same, he just looks a few years older.

34?

You should still be pretty close to your peak

 

[Agricolae]

The greatest athletes are those who train to play above the level of their competition. The most efficient of those play just far enough above their competition to consistently win (dominate); they don't waste time training to outperform their competitors by 50% when 5-10% will suffice. They're not training to play better than someone who has not yet been born.

The greatest athletes never stop reaching for the top because that's what it takes to stay on top. They aren't competing against anyone else because their only competition is themselves. 5-10% when they can do more finds them with competition. "Just good enough" is not in their vocabulary. It's all or nothing. How do you think they got on top in the first place?

I understand and respect what you're saying, but I don't think it is true. Of course, the greatest athletes reach for the top; they continue to do that until they fall off due to age, superior competitors, injury, or they lose their drive. I can't imagine a top athlete not recognizing competitors; winning means you take the trophy and someone else doesn't. Regarding training, a person can always do more, harder, longer; social life, family, other interests, and down time can all be cut into or eliminated in deference to training. I agree that champions don't think in terms of "just good enough." Champions get on top in the first place by fighting their way up through the competition and knowing what it takes to stay there.

All that to say that I believe that some of the greatest athletes from past eras did not realize their full potential. Also, most athletes from the current era are not realizing their full potential; especially in a low dollar sport like disc golf.

 

[madmax88]

Ken Climo will be turning 48 years old in a couple weeks. After two rounds at the Memorial, he's shooting -17, which would be good for 12th place in the Open division. His PDGA rating is 1023./QUOTE]

I think the old man you should be talking about is McCray

 

[Plastic Thunder]

I spent an hour with him in November.

Back in November he spent an hour with me and another guy going over putting. I was so thankful. He was at the Coachman and talked with anyone who came up to him. No one is perfect at every moment but I have seen him with the local guys and he is just like most of us. He just plays way better most days. He spent 4 or 5 hours just sitting around visiting, throwing and he signed discs.

The man has lived in a fish bowl for years and to see him take the time to teach while he is getting ready to play is amazing. Plus it's a class act.

I got a lot of respect for his game but little for his character. See last year's Worlds for an example.

 

[runningDoc]

it seems like the modern players like Paul McBeth have huge sidearms + more consistent outside the circle putting.

it maybe because of disc technology that the sidearms are so much better/more prevalent, but I don't really think its totally that... there were overstable discs like the viper and what not, also players like barsby/jerm/wysocki throw understable discs like normal midranges and putters sidearm too.

there was a change of game theory where utilizing the hyzer line when available, be it with a backhand or sidearm was the higher percentage play. the theory looks to be correct...its like an evolution of the dad/old man game - if you can find a hyzer line then thats the higher percentage (old man/dad) play.

so the old world play of throwing 250-300ft anny with a beat up roc is now supplanted by throwing a hyzer with the sidearm. its an improvement of dad play.

 

[sidewinder22]

Ken Climo will be turning 48 years old in a couple weeks. After two rounds at the Memorial, he's shooting -17, which would be good for 12th place in the Open division. His PDGA rating is 1023./QUOTE]

I think the old man you should be talking about is McCray

Johne is 4 years younger than Ken, and a great player in his own right.

Ken hasn't played much in the past 2 years, and was still rated in 1030s less than a year ago. Only 3 years ago Climo was rated 1040! There's only two players in the World currently that are rated over 1040, and only 3 others currently rated over 1030.

 

[tbird888]

I understand and respect what you're saying, but I don't think it is true. Of course, the greatest athletes reach for the top; they continue to do that until they fall off due to age, superior competitors, injury, or they lose their drive. I can't imagine a top athlete not recognizing competitors; winning means you take the trophy and someone else doesn't. Regarding training, a person can always do more, harder, longer; social life, family, other interests, and down time can all be cut into or eliminated in deference to training. I agree that champions don't think in terms of "just good enough." Champions get on top in the first place by fighting their way up through the competition and knowing what it takes to stay there.

All that to say that I believe that some of the greatest athletes from past eras did not realize their full potential. Also, most athletes from the current era are not realizing their full potential; especially in a low dollar sport like disc golf.

I kind of get your point, but I think you should send McBeth a PM (hopefully he'll respond) and ask him if he's giving 100% every day or just doing a little more than everybody else.

 

[madmax88]

You are correct about rating but I don't think that is a completely fair comparison for talent. I think Climo plays more regional tournaments and McCray has a lot more tourneys with higher rated competition. I am just looking at how well McCray has been doing in the OPEN division against the big guns. He seems to compete better despite what the ratings show.

 

[VictorB]

34?

You should still be pretty close to your peak

Overall physically I am, but I'm certainly not playing at the level I was 5 years ago. It might be lack of practice only, but hard to differentiate when I don't get to play much. So yes, at 34 my disc golf game is declining, relatively speaking.

 

[tbird888]

35 is pretty much when I noticed the aches and pains start appearing on the day after soccer games (not to mention all the young snots running past me like I was standing still!). In my 40s, it's even worse. I'm not nearly in as good of shape as I was, but I was in solid shape when the pains started.

 

[Agricolae]

I kind of get your point, but I think you should send McBeth a PM (hopefully he'll respond) and ask him if he's giving 100% every day or just doing a little more than everybody else.

McBeth is a great example! He may well be giving 100% to training and improving his game everyday. I'd bet money though, if someone steps up and owns him a few times, he'll find a way to give it 110%.
McBeth currently works harder/smarter than everyone else. He'll find another level if he has to in order to stay on top.

 

[tbird888]

Or maybe, after that theoretical person stepped up, he'd figure out the holes in his game that he didn't know existed before that and continue giving 100% every day to close them. It sounds like you think that 100% means that someone does everything, even when they don't know there's more out there. That's an impossibility.

 

[VictorB]

35 is pretty much when I noticed the aches and pains start appearing on the day after soccer games (not to mention all the young snots running past me like I was standing still!). In my 40s, it's even worse. I'm not nearly in as good of shape as I was, but I was in solid shape when the pains started.

Yeah, it definitely takes me more work outside of gym training to recover from gym training (better nutrition, sleep, stretching, foam rolling, mobility work etc) I've shifted my focus from powerlifting on this training cycle just to see if I can increase my work capacity to help recovery even more.

I think if I got to play/throw/practice a lot more there wouldn't be as much difference in my skills from 4-5 years ago, but I still don't think they would be the same. For Kenny to be able to take care of himself well enough and practice enough to be able to keep his skills so sharp for so long is a real testament to his longevity and dedication.