I am going off on my own, a totally new approach

[Dan Ensor]

I

Anyone care to compare this with Tiger's "hip snap" technique?

If baseball hitters don't pivot on/from their back leg/foot when they are hitting, then what would you call it?

Pushing off. It's more clear in a throw.

 

[Casey 1988]

The way I see it to make a whip of the throwing arm according to Bradley Walker and using body to get arm to do what it does. I do a mini hop with legs in the throw on full power drives like a few pro players do to keep from tripping when going faster with the run up. I do not do the leg motion but use the core more like the thrower clip in my throw as I have been doing more the Whip with the upper body on full on drives. Control drives I use the core just the same an do the whip but it is with an arm and elbow I add some tension to them to be a bit more stiff. With the more tight wooded holes I do a short fairway shot with the arms and do not use much core in the shot. I was told by Pro Ken Tank Franks in 2007 at the South Dakota State Disc golf Tournament he saw a male Pro who was a smaller or skinny dude using the arm as a whip Idea and then using my core came into play more.

 

[Casey 1988]

Only a change I make to my main throw is I stop after I hit the center line with the more control style or 15-20 degrees past that with my full out whip throw as I can not generate the snap necessary to rip the disc from the hand though with the second I come close. Also it hurts my throwing shoulder to do the full part after the release of the disc.

Legs I spin/pivot with front toes and do a push off to get the spin with the back doping more a push off after the set up with the X step during the power part. I have to do this being a smaller player with 110 pounds or 49 kilograms being a heavy day and 5 foot 2 inches or 157 centimeters I can't do the spin with the heel on front foot as my throw as this wastes energy.

 

[sidewinder22]

Anyone care to compare this with Tiger's "hip snap" technique?

A specific move in Woods' golf swing wasn't doing him any good, either. Just past impact with longer clubs, Woods regularly snapped his left knee into hyperextension. Woods considered the move a key source of distance, and as a small-boned person of 6-feet-2--who still has a 29½-inch waist and weighs 178 pounds--it was an important one as he competed against bigger men like Singh, Els and Mickelson. In his book How I Play Golf, Woods writes that he would exaggerate the move "when I need an extra 20 yards."
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jaime_diaz_truthabouttiger_gd0501

Drew Gibson:

 

[VictorB]

When I actively 'throw with the left side' and push my left shoulder through - I don't even really feel what my right arm is doing. At the same time, my distance doesn't suffer at all and my accuracy is better.

 

[VictorB]

I can definitely feel a big difference when I dont push my left shoulder through the swing. I can feel what Bradley means about the arm flailing or flapping.

 

[DiscFifty]

Who is "we"?

I think this might just be a waste of time...

Please come back to this thread with a video visually explaining everything. It's not a waste of time by any means. Thank you.

 

[ranger]

When I actively 'throw with the left side' and push my left shoulder through - I don't even really feel what my right arm is doing. At the same time, my distance doesn't suffer at all and my accuracy is better.

This interesting. Is there another way to phrase the left shoulder thing? Not sure I fully understand.

 

[crd 81]

Pushing off. It's more clear in a throw.

I grew up playing baseball all the way up to high school. I had good success in hitting the ball with power while thinking about the traditional "squash the bug." It was never detrimental to my hitting. That's why I asked about the correlation between the back leg in baseball and the throw in disc golf.

Looking back at it, I think one of the reasons I was able to hit with power was because I had good brace. That I remember (been years ago) actively trying to make my back hip (the left side in disc golf) come around in a quick manner. I think this allowed me generate more power. I'm sure there were things that I was doing right and even doing wrong that I wasn't aware of.

Anyway, I can see now with comparing and contrasting baseball and disc golf that the back leg is more of the "pushing off" as you said rather than a pivot. I'm reminded in the old Dan Beto video that his back leg pushed off much like a skateboarder and their back leg on a skateboard. I think the confusion comes up with the pivot due to the fact that that both concepts are trying to achieve the same moment. The pushing off method is the more accurate one.

As well, pushing off with your back foot like a skateboarder/batter in baseball while throwing a disc seems to get the arm in the power pocket/ 10:30 zone easier. I think it also helps establish an easier linear to rotational throw.

I can see how an active back leg and shoulder (the left leg and shoulder for RHBH) would make the front half more passive or, at least, appear more passive in the disc golf throw.

Enough of my rambling. I need to go to bed.

 

[2naphish]

found this thread and it brought to mind what a fellow told me 25 yrs ago. "you don't throw with your arm,you throw with your butt". he consistently threw 50-75 ft farther than any of the rest of us and was about as unathletic appearing person as i have ever seen. the explanation didn't go any further than that and guess i just filed it away.

watching various "bombers" in slow motion made me realize this was what he was talking about. i am going to try and incorporate my butt into my backhand shots and see if it helps me focus on my lower body. better late than never.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I grew up playing baseball all the way up to high school. I had good success in hitting the ball with power while thinking about the traditional "squash the bug." It was never detrimental to my hitting. That's why I asked about the correlation between the back leg in baseball and the throw in disc golf.

Many people from the "squash the bug" era developed a proper weight shift. Also, some people teach the proper technique but still call it "squash the bug", perhaps unaware of the improper "squash the bug".

 

[Jovomagic]

This is my first post on dgcr, so i'll start with a little introduction. Since I read a lot of english texts, but very rarely write or speak english myself, I hope that this post is understandable for you. I'm from Germany, I've been playing for almost two years now, I'm RHBH/RHFH. Unfortunately in my region there are only a two courses and these are both about an hour away. Including the tournaments mentioned later, I played only 5 times on a course. But I am lucky that a few hundred meters away from my workplace there is a small park where I use my lunch breaks to improve my skills in disc golf. Last year I played my first two unsanctioned tournaments, to have a first small indicator of where I stand with my skills. I finished it with +6/+5, a bit better than half the competitors. That motivated me to get better. I didn't have a basket until a few weeks ago so of course putting was a point that didn't work so well at the tournaments. Besides, putting was actually a bit more mentally challenging at the tournaments. Drives I was quite relaxed about and they were even better than I expected. Although I'm very happy with my development so far, I'd like to throw further and this thread gave me the hint that I've profited the most from so far.

After a few dry exercises inside I was really surprised how much faster my arm accelerates. Now that I haven't been above the 350ft mark for months,(except a few throws) I thought of doing a little research by myself. So I watched a lot of videos to see this more clearly and understand it better. Thereby I stumbled over the comparison with McBeth, Schusterick, Koling and Feldberg.

You can clearly see that McBeth initiates the movement with his left arm/shoulder while still reaching back. I also tried this without a disc to get a feeling for the movement and somehow it clicked and I was sure that this would increase my throwing distance. In this dry practice I felt a huge increase in acceleration of the throwing arm and hit my left shoulder relatively hard with my right hand.

The first time I tried it in the field I had good results with putters and midranges. The same distance as my normal throws, a bit more effortless. With fairway drivers, I had almost the same distance with my hyzers as I normally had with flat releases. But it didn't feel as good as in the dry practice. Getting the disc in the powerpocket, especially with the lose right arm, didn't really work out for me. I had problems with getting the disc around my left shoulder if I wanted to speed up my throws for distance, because I accelerated my left shoulder so fast that the disc lagged behind and couldn't get around the shoulder anymore when I held it on a flat level.

At that moment I remembered, that I once noticed a kind of disc tilting when watching slow-motion drives by Simon Lizotte, and also some other players. At that time I was still wondering why they do that. In my idea of a perfect throw, the disc is on one level, from the last point of reaching back to the release of the disc. That seemed logical to me. I also mean to have heard something similar in a clinic of Feldberg on youtube. Now I think, that seems to be right for approaches or throws that are not done with full power, but not necessarily for max distance drives. When reaching back he tilts the disc with the front up. By front I mean the part of the disc he's holding in his hand. I don't know if this is just an in-between step for me, until my overall timing with this gets better. But by tilting the disc, I can pass my left shoulder with the disc even when the left shoulder accelerates fast and get a much bigger acceleration on the disc itself. I also notice that I can get the disc closer to my chest and I think this way I can generate a more effective power-pocket.

Here are pictures of Austin Turner who is already reaching back with this kind of disc angle. I chose Austin for this pic because that's the kind of way I'm experimenting with it right now. But here are some more pictures of other players' throws. A similar sequence of movements can be seen here.

The first time I tested this in field practice I threw one of my Undertakers 425ft, where I threw my distance drivers to a maximum of 350ft before. The field I throw on is slightly downhill, but my previous throws were still only 350ft at max. So in my opinion, a technical advise which gets you an instant increase in performance of 20%, even without optimising the technique, is worth testing it.

The next time I went on the field I was looking for a spot with no differences in elevation, after warming up I had no throw under 350ft. I had some problems with the release angles but still the overall distance was constantly better. The third time I went on the field I had a really nice throw with my Comet up to 330. The drives became more consistent. The next time I went on the field I took a step backwards to get the timing better. I did one step throws which were all about 330-350ft. At the end of the training I got back to the slight downhill field and tried to speed things up with the x-step again. The first throws had terrible release angles couldn't control the disc the way I wanted. I remembered seeing PMcB, with his thumb relatively far from the rim. I tried it and had such wonderful shots, two about 440+ft with my Octanes and 495ft throw with my Relativity. The last time I went on the field, I tried to get more consistent throws with this new thumb placement, and it worked, I had much more consistent flights. I had a 420ft throw with one of my Teslas and again none under 350ft. On the slight downhill field I had no throw under 370ft, of course still with a certain spread in the landing zone, but it gets better from throw to throw.

I am really thankful for this thread. It may not be the right hint for everyone, but it was some kind of breakthrough for me. Surely this is only the beginning and my throws with this kind of technique adjustment are a bit too inconsistent at the moment, but I think with proper training this will take my game to another level.

Thank you!

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

, I tried to get more consistent throws with this new thumb placement, and it worked
Thank you!

Hey man good post! For a first it's a winner! There's also a Bradley Walker YouTube video it's "more Snap" or something like that in two parts... the thought is that the weight of the disc is directly opposite your hand more like a hatchet or hammer than a round object.. Boooom!

Hey I'm a big fan of this nugget, can you elaborate on the thumb placement a la McBeth further from the rim?

And I love that you are throwing MVP over there

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Hey I'm a big fan of this nugget, can you elaborate on the thumb placement a la McBeth further from the rim?

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121557&highlight=Deep+thumb+plate

Big thread about it.

 

[sidewinder22]

At that moment I remembered, that I once noticed a kind of disc tilting when watching slow-motion drives by Simon Lizotte, and also some other players. At that time I was still wondering why they do that. In my idea of a perfect throw, the disc is on one level, from the last point of reaching back to the release of the disc. That seemed logical to me. I also mean to have heard something similar in a clinic of Feldberg on youtube. Now I think, that seems to be right for approaches or throws that are not done with full power, but not necessarily for max distance drives. When reaching back he tilts the disc with the front up. By front I mean the part of the disc he's holding in his hand. I don't know if this is just an in-between step for me, until my overall timing with this gets better. But by tilting the disc, I can pass my left shoulder with the disc even when the left shoulder accelerates fast and get a much bigger acceleration on the disc itself. I also notice that I can get the disc closer to my chest and I think this way I can generate a more effective power-pocket.

Here are pictures of Austin Turner who is already reaching back with this kind of disc angle. I chose Austin for this pic because that's the kind of way I'm experimenting with it right now.

I am really thankful for this thread. It may not be the right hint for everyone, but it was some kind of breakthrough for me. Surely this is only the beginning and my throws with this kind of technique adjustment are a bit too inconsistent at the moment, but I think with proper training this will take my game to another level.

Thank you!

Here's a thread/article on the Downward Tilt or Anhyzer Tilt you are describing:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113256

IMO it's more of a distance trick, rather than a fundamental of throwing far. I prefer to keep the disc plane perpendicular to my spine like Steve Brinster.

If you keep your elbow forward, then you should never hit your left shoulder.

 

[ticklethetruth]

I'm curious how this translates... Squashing the bug (crushing can) with front foot. Would the rear foot cone drill work for disc golf?

 

[Blobfish]

Try it. You can swing your left side around your fixed right side faster than you can get your right side out of the way. And with a great deal more power and ease. Try it!!!

Holy smokes, this was eye-opening! Just without the disc, I could feel the lead arm accelerating smoother and at a greater rate. When I was much younger, I would get a tingly hand if I tried throwing anything (like baseballs) or swinging anything (like tennis racquets) much too hard. I've never had that experience in disc golf and yet that's exactly what I just experienced when trying this exercise without a disc, left hand on right bicep like the OP said to try. I'm interested to give it a whirl with a disc! Too bad it just snowed here haha.

 

[Blobfish]

So I have been itching to get out and throw with this technique, and coupled with Sidewinder's one armed hammer throw video, I think the logic here is that this release style is kind of like how a hurricane or spiral galaxy is formed, and also much like how a trebuchet releases... a lot of angular acceleration driven by the lower moment of inertia core (and trailing arm brought in) to accelerate (as the OP put it "faster than you can get the lead side out of the way) which then unwinds the lead arm and the disc comes out much like the end of a bullwhip. (I'm guessing that's what all the "whip" posts were referencing? Sorry, I'm still learning a lot of these technical terms used here)
Meanwhile, some (sounds like they are wrong by conventional wisdom now) ideas tried to teach people to pull linearly to induce torque on the disc (like a piston driving a crankshaft). But that would then ignore the tangential speed that could be added if the whole body were rotating. Makes me think of the Leveraxe, the axe which turns translational motion into rotational motion upon impact to split the log as it strikes. .

Anyway, am I missing anything here? Because everything about this idea from the OP seems to make a whole lot of sense.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm curious how this translates... Squashing the bug (crushing can) with front foot. Would the rear foot cone drill work for disc golf?

Yeah, that would work, you would want your rear foot to be angled like 120-135 degrees pointed away from target for that rather than 90.

This is another way to not spin the rear foot into the cone or can... crush the can/bug with both feet:

 

[sidewinder22]

So I have been itching to get out and throw with this technique, and coupled with Sidewinder's one armed hammer throw video, I think the logic here is that this release style is kind of like how a hurricane or spiral galaxy is formed, and also much like how a trebuchet releases... a lot of angular acceleration driven by the lower moment of inertia core (and trailing arm brought in) to accelerate (as the OP put it "faster than you can get the lead side out of the way) which then unwinds the lead arm and the disc comes out much like the end of a bullwhip. (I'm guessing that's what all the "whip" posts were referencing? Sorry, I'm still learning a lot of these technical terms used here)
Meanwhile, some (sounds like they are wrong by conventional wisdom now) ideas tried to teach people to pull linearly to induce torque on the disc (like a piston driving a crankshaft). But that would then ignore the tangential speed that could be added if the whole body were rotating. Makes me think of the Leveraxe, the axe which turns translational motion into rotational motion upon impact to split the log as it strikes. .

Anyway, am I missing anything here? Because everything about this idea from the OP seems to make a whole lot of sense.

Only thing missing is that the body/trail side has to stop rotating to fully release/extend the arm/disc like the Olympic hammer thrower or tennis player.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124523